Oge Zogie still feels like a bit of an imposter when she says she has a speaking business. Even though she is just starting, she has a vision to become a life coach full time and help others with purpose and mindset. 

Oge had a 15 year career in education, where she spoke to one of the most challenging audiences to connect with, students. Now spends her daytime job doing change management, which includes facilitating workshops. After taking an online course and working with a coach, Oge realized if she wanted to pursue being a life coach, it wasn’t going to come from outside, but she was going to need to do the work.

Now, in the time she has outside of the change management, she pursues her real passion as a life coach, helping people to discover their own unique gifts, their own unique strengths, and helping them to get the confidence to pursue it.

What other lessons did Oge Zogie share? 

• If you want to start something new, give it time every day. If you don’t, it won’t grow
• Speaking isn’t about all the bells and whistles, it’s about landing your message
• There is a lot of learning that comes from doing
• Whatever path you take, it can all lead to speaking
• Live streaming on Instagram can connect you with new clients, get instant feedback and provide ideas on what your community wants to hear
• Take advantage of the networks that you have in the situation where you are

 

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Who is Oge Zogie?

Ironically, I grew up as a shy, introvert who was reminded constantly to speak up. My introduction to speaking began in my career as a primary school teacher. There, I experienced first-hand the power of speaking to inform and to empower. Children are a very transparent audience and I quickly learnt what elements contributed to effective speaking and what elements did not!

After 15 years, I successfully pivoted from teaching and I’m now pursuing my passion for coaching. My mission is to help others uncover their unique purpose in life and confidently pursue it while navigating all the changes that brings. Coaching has led me back to speaking once again and the prospect for growth is incredibly exciting!

I absolutely love a good story so I listen to audiobooks and podcasts regularly on the go. In my free time, I enjoy singing karaoke and dancing with my daughter, travelling, and making memories with family and friends preferably around a dinner table.

You can connect with Oge Zogie on Instagram and please check out her website . 

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Below is the full transcript from the show with Oge Zogie. Please note that there may be some errors as it was auto transcribed using Otter.ai. (referral link that provides us with a 1-month Premium Pass

Oge Zogie 0:00
Hi, Tim.

Tim McDonald 0:02
Hello. Oge, and welcome, everybody to the business of speaking show. I am your host, Tim McDonald, and I am so glad to be joined by my special guest, Oge today, how are you doing?

Oge Zogie 0:15
I’m great, Tim, thank you for having me on.

Tim McDonald 0:17
No, it’s so wonderful. And I love how connections can help bring us together. And we’ll get into that a little bit, because I’m sure it might be part of your story. But you know, really, for those of you just turning tuning in, for the first time, the business is speaking show is really about, you know, people interested in getting into the speaking world, or people may be just starting on their journey in the speaking world. But if 2020 hasn’t taught us anything, regardless of what we think we know, life has a new way of showing us that we don’t know nearly as much as we think. So with that being said, Oge, why don’t you tell us before we jump into how you got started, why don’t you tell us a little bit about what you focus on, you know, today, some of your major accomplishments, and then we’ll kind of go back to the beginning of how it all started.

Oge Zogie 1:10
Okay. So I think about my speaking business, so to speak, it’s, it’s in its infancy, really. And sometimes I must admit Tim, I feel like a bit of an imposter, calling it a business. But I, I choose to call it that, because that’s the vision that I have for it. And as a life coach, I speak to my clients, prospective clients, my audience through a platform I have on Instagram. And I talk about personal development topics, things like around the idea of purpose, and mindset, because those have been the two big areas where I’ve had my own personal transformation. So I really feel that desire to share this message with more people. So they can have the same kind of transformation that I’ve had. So I initially started by recording videos and posting them out onto the platform. And then about couple of months ago, I decided to do live chat sessions with my audience. And those have been really, really insightful. Because you get some, you get instant feedback, you get to see people’s reactions, and it’s just been wonderful. And every time I’ve done one of those, I get either an inquiry or a client. And so it just really validates the idea that it is, you know, a major part of my business. So, you know, I talked about being a life coach, but I’ve been I’ve done other things. So I’ve had a 15 year career in in teaching. So as a primary school teacher, and as you can imagine, speaking, is a really huge part of that. So I always say to people, that children are some of the toughest audiences to be in front of, because, you know, they they have no reservations in their in their reactions, and you know, straight away with it, your messages landing or not. So, I’ve had a career in teaching. And I pivoted from that, and I have a daytime career in change management. So in that respect, I handled the people side of change where I coordinate and facilitate workshops. So that’s a huge part of my role speaking and presenting. So but my true true passion is as a life coach, helping people to discover their own unique gifts, their own unique strengths, and helping them to get the confidence to pursue it. So those are some of the things that I’ve done that led me to this point.

Tim McDonald 3:43
Yeah, no, that’s so interesting. And I love how you started out by saying that, you know, you’re just kind of in the early stages and have this imposter syndrome. And I’m just kind of, but then you went on to explain how you try and help people what you work through. So can you explain, like, when you, you know, when was it that you kind of started thinking that this is what you wanted to do outside of education and your change management career.

Oge Zogie 4:11
Okay, so it’s, um, it’s really, I can pinpoint is, I guess, to February 2019. So it was around the time I was turning 39. And I don’t know if you do this, but usually around birthdays, I now have adopted the practice of just reflecting. It’s something I learned from my husband, he used to do it quite a lot. He’ll take the whole day off work, he’d go for walks and think about his life. And I used to turn my nose up at it, but now I actually appreciate it. So I was, you know, reflecting on my life, where it come from where I was going. And I came out of that time of reflection really with that desire to to discover what I was good at and pursue it. And at that time, I didn’t know what it was. So it took about a year cuz fast forward again, to next birthday about to approach 40, which I think is when a lot of light bulbs go on in people’s lives, I suppose in that midlife awakening, if you call it that, and I mean, I went through some programs, I had some help to really just distill down, what was my unique strength. And I used to always look outside for it, I used to think, oh, whatever it is I need to do, it’s probably something outside. But I really when I reflected in inside of me, and I started to notice those signs in my life, like people always find me approachable. People always come to me with issues and people say that I helped them to have clarity around it, I started to pick up on those signs. And that’s what led me to coaching. And I realized that speaking was going to be a vehicle with which I was going to then offer this service of coaching to people. So that’s kind of how I came about it. But um, I would say all that teaching, that career in teaching was preparing me for this in a way and and that’s one of life’s lessons, I guess that whatever happens to you, or whatever journey you’ve taken, was meant to be because it’s leading somewhere. So my I think my teaching career was leading me to this, being able to speak to talk to pupils, and teach them being able to speak to parents who were so like, emotionally invested in their children. So sometimes those conversations can be hard. So I think relating with parents helped me to develop that ability to have those difficult conversations. And I could even maybe trace it back to my childhood, I was really painfully shy Tim, you wouldn’t if someone had told me that I’d be doing this, I wouldn’t believe it, I was so reluctant to share any of my thoughts. Because I didn’t want to be criticized, I didn’t want to be told off. I didn’t want to get it wrong. So I was really, really shy. But I think in a way, ironically, that helped me to observe people more, he helped me to analyze people’s behavior more it helped me to, I don’t know, I lived in my head, I don’t know how healthy that was. But it really helped me to develop this ability to to, to pick up on things and to observe people and then build that ability to be able to connect with them based on what I had observed. So I feel like that, you know, plus the teaching career plus the change, because a huge part of coaching. In fact, the thread that runs through coaching is change. People always want to transform or change something in their life. So I didn’t know it to me, I felt like I couldn’t set it on one thing. But when I look back on it, all of these things were signs and just like threads in the story,leading me to this point.

Tim McDonald 7:44
I just love this, this story. And I think you and I could just have a talk about the voices in our heads for, you know, the next hour. But staying more focused on the show, I think I heard you say that you actually were reaching out and looking for help from others. And can you explain like, you know, I mean, I don’t need names or anything like that. But like, what type of help are you looking for? How did you find it? And how did it help you?

Oge Zogie 8:15
Okay, so I’m, I was looking, I used to be always been interested in anybody or anybody talking about, like, what what are your passions and how to how to discover where your passions were. So I went to a lot of online courses. And I went through I’m a Christian by background as well. So sometimes the spiritual sector, they also do things like that to help you, like uncover your gifts, your passion. And, you know, everybody always said everybody had one. But somehow I didn’t really find that I take personality tests, I take psychometric all these things, I do them. And I still didn’t quite land on it. But I think the thing that helped me was, it was an online course at the end of the day that helped me. And it was a, you just have a series of questions. So at the end, I had to still do the work. I had to sit down and really ask myself those questions that invited me to even go to my circle of people and ask them those questions. And then things started becoming a little bit clearer. So I would say yeah, online courses, there was a coach on that online course because we had a weekly coaching session that really did help to, to bring all this out. So yeah.

Tim McDonald 9:31
Oh, and I know that one of these major takeaways that I’m going to include, it’s already mentally noted, is I still had to do the work.

Oge Zogie 9:39
Yeah, I still had to do that work. Yes.

Tim McDonald 9:43
So um, you know, I know you, you were talking about the teaching career, and you can look back on it and know that you were speaking back then in front of the students and with parents. Did you know it at the time, or was it something that you just reflect back on.

Oge Zogie 10:01
Um, I don’t think I was hugely aware of it at the time, I think I just went with the, with the role at the beginning of my career, I just I wasn’t aware of it at the beginning of my career. But as my career developed, I realized that, yeah, this was what this was. And that it was one thing to speak, it is one thing to be understood. And, you know, in the teaching world, what has been the teacher knows that sometimes you go through things called observations where you are, that’s your chance to really like, show all your teaching techniques and skills and, and a lot of the time, even from the point of view, as an observer, you might notice that sometimes the teacher can get carried away with that bit, and almost not take care to ensure that the message lands with the children. So it’s all the bells and whistles come out, and, and the message doesn’t really land sometimes. And so I think, into, as I got into my career, realize the importance of stripping away all those things, and ensuring that my message gets across. And that was really the true the power of this weekend. And you could see that result, you could see the outcome, sometimes I could do something amazing, and the children just forget it. And then sometimes I could just bring it back to something that they can relate to something that’s relevant to them, and maybe even tell them a story from my childhood. And those are the ones they hung on to. And I realized, okay, there is this, there is a method to this thing, and it’s not just, you know, lights and shiny things, it had to be relevant to them.

Tim McDonald 11:41
Oh, that’s great. I love that, that reflection and how it kind of grew, as your career grew. You mentioned, that you’re still in change management as a career, and you’re doing coaching and everything now, I’d love to kind of know and hear from you. How has that been? You know, because so many people think, Oh, I need to quit my job to start this business. Right. And you are one who still has it and started a business. And can you explain kind of what some of the pain points are? What kind of the struggles were that you had doing that? Because I think so many people are just, you know, assume I don’t have the time. I don’t have, you know, the resources to be able to do this. Unless if I leave this and here’s somebody who you doing it. So I just love to hear? How are you doing it?

Oge Zogie 12:37
Well, I can totally relate the biggest pain point is, is time. Yeah, the biggest pain point is time. And I think maybe for some people as well. Switching contexts can be quite difficult. You know, one day you were in this hat, the next minute, you’re wearing that hat. So those are some of the pains that I realized that are there. But they’re definitely, and the way that I get around daisies to reframe it, I realized that there isn’t that much time. So I have to make every moment count. So I have to be really, I suppose not rigid, but I have to really be focused. In my time, I had to set up routines with my time. And I have to say that I don’t do this full time. So I work as a change manager three days a week, and I have two days a week where, where I focus on my coaching and my speaking. So that was the kind of balance that I try got, I didn’t leave one completely and go into the other. So. And in those two days, it’s very tempting as you would know, I mean, many maybe people might relate to this, when you’re working from home and you’re doing your own thing there is nobody policing you. So you have to have that focus and that timetable, and that, you know, routine that you say, this is what I’m going to do, because this is the outcome that I want. So you really have to learn to manage yourself. So for anybody, I guess, who’s thinking, I don’t have the time, and I don’t know if I can do both, it could maybe step back a little bit on one, it could, you know, split it, do part time on that and do that. Or just find a way to give something every day to that part. It doesn’t have to be long, it could be a half an hour, it could be an hour, give something every day to this other thing that you want to grow, and it will grow. If you don’t give it something it won’t grow.

Tim McDonald 14:28
Yeah, we talked about planting seeds all the time. And if we don’t water them and give them enough sun, they won’t turn into anything right and sometimes we don’t know what they’re gonna turn into. If we don’t give them the water if we don’t give them the sun, nothing’s gonna happen.

Oge Zogie 14:43
That’s right. And another thing is, you know, you’ve got networks in both. I’ve got a networking in my change management role in my even my past teaching role. And those networks are hugely they’re going to be so important to you, even as you do this other thing that you might think is so radically different. So just taking advantage of the networks that you have in the situation where you are, I’ve got a client from from where I do my work, because we were just chatting about something and I just posed the question, would you like help with that? And I, and then I’ve got the client from there. So you can almost marry the two worlds. If you I guess, if you see the possibilities and the advantages of both of them.

Tim McDonald 15:29
It’s It’s so interesting to me that you talk about this, because I think that’s one thing that most of us don’t give ourselves credit for. One is learned in the past, but it’s not just what we’ve learned. It’s who we’ve come in contact with. Right?

Oge Zogie 15:45
Yeah, yeah. So right, Tim, because your network is your network. And you know, just the power of talking to people you just never know, you just never know.

Tim McDonald 15:58
Well, as you decided to launch into your, you know, your coaching business and your, which involves speaking, how did you kind of know where you were going to start? what it was going to look like what you need to do first.

Oge Zogie 16:16
Like I said, I had the help of a coach. So I wouldn’t say I did it on my own, I had to help for coach that was able to guide me and say, Okay, these are some of the things that you need to do. These are some of it. So I guess I had all that theory. And I was sitting with it. But I think when the pandemic hit, I realized, okay, I don’t really have any other excuse. Now, I don’t really have any, like, it’s not super busy now. So there’s no better time than now. And so that’s what actually made me take the plunge the fact that we had the pandemic, so I had to gain all this knowledge, and I was kind of sitting on and I was, you know, I can be an over thinker. And I was sitting on it for a while. But I think with the pandemic, and just seeing how you never really know, what’s what’s, what tomorrow is going to bring. And then you could also see a lot of people like spiraling into, I don’t know, like, just negative emotions, and and I just thought, okay, I could help here, and I need to just start doing it. I guess I had to talk myself out of waiting to be the expert, or waiting to know everything. And I had to remind myself that there is a lot of learning that comes from doing, I have to almost let go of all the self consciousness because that was a really big barrier. Sometimes it’s self consciousness. And I think, you know, what does my client need instead, and focus on that, that rather than on myself, so I would say having a coach, just the environment, the pandemic, and then just just getting a bit out of my own self, and self consciousness with the things that actually moved me into Start to begin acting.

Tim McDonald 18:02
And I’m sure that part of your business is helping people get through their own thoughts, and things that are holding them back. So I don’t want to dive too deep into that. But for you, I just because this is something that I’m, I’ve gone through myself, I’m like, so fascinated with, you know, how it affects others? How did it work for you? How did you kind of get out of your head and out in the world to be able to make that transition? And from what people are gonna think of you to what you had to offer to help others?

Oge Zogie 18:37
Yeah. See that? I don’t even know if I’m completely out. It’s a it’s a journey as well. I’m gonna say, Tim. And I would say that, and it might seem like, I’m just preaching coach, Coach, but I had a coach. I had a coach, and, you know, in our coaching conversations, I would express a lot of this, you know, what if people don’t think I’m an expert, what if people don’t take me seriously? What if people don’t know me Just think, oh, how while all of a sudden, wherever you come from with this? And I’d express all these things and and, you know, my coach would just gently asked me, and so what does that mean for you? And what would that what’s the worst that could happen? And she just probe and I would just realize that actually, there’s this it couldn’t get worse. It couldn’t be worse. There couldn’t be anything that’s gonna happen that could harm me. And therefore I didn’t need to be afraid. So I think having that coach helped me to be able to recognize the fear and almost the the fact that it wasn’t valid, to be able to come out of it and I guess the encouragement of my friends as well when the encouragement of my close family and people that I shared my passionate with that helped me to say okay, well if they believe in you You believe in yourself, you know, you, you just have to try it, I guess. And I think that’s what helped me and, and I, this, I read a lot, I read a lot, I love to read a lot. So I read a lot about people’s stories, I read a lot about people’s what they’ve done. And I realized that if they could achieve that, then it’s possible. It’s possible. So it was, it was a mindset transformation, I would say, because I didn’t always think that way. I didn’t always think that way at all. But with the help of coaching, with the belief and support of the people around me, I think that was what helped me to start to just take my first step. And once you take that first step, it’s like diving into just cold water into this into the ocean or into the sea, you’d feel that shock at the moment. Once you you get in and then you just almost climatized and it’s much better than just trying to dip your toes and then your ankles, and then you’re just prolonging it, just jump in

Tim McDonald 20:59
love that. I think that’s gonna be a great way to kind of start getting to the close here. So, um, I usually ask the question, but I know you’re so early in your, in your journey of creating this business, I usually ask if you could go back to the beginning and tell yourself one thing that that you would change, what would it be? But I’m kind of thinking for you. Maybe if you if you do have one, you can share that. But for you, maybe I can ask what is one thing right now that you wish you knew about this world of speaking?

Oge Zogie 21:31
Huh? Wow. I wish. And I don’t know this sounds. I probably wish that I knew all of this when I was younger. So I wish that I probably had more time. I wish I knew all this stuff when I was younger, because I think my younger self was less inhibited. my younger self was more adventurous and my younger self would, would probably not have gone through all the pains and all the fears. But I’m just saying that I really don’t know. So if I’m done, I wish that I knew that. I knew a lot of this earlier. And also, I wish that I knew that when you experience something, it usually has a purpose. I fought against a lot of experiences, I’ve spent a lot of time being miserable in those experiences. And I’m not saying it takes the misery away. But I think myself now understands that if I am experiencing something unpleasant or pleasant, that there has to be a use for and I don’t know that just in my in, you know, head knowledge. I really truly believe it. Now, I think when I was younger, I didn’t really believe it. And therefore I wrestled against, you know, experiences, I wrestled against feeling like, you know, I was lost. And I wrestled with so many things that have now turned out to be the experiences that are part of my story. So I think just that relax, it’s all part of the plan. I wish I had known that.

Tim McDonald 23:18
I love that. So Oge, it’s been so great talking with you and hearing your story. I’d love if you can share how people can find you online, how they can connect with you.

Oge Zogie 23:33
Okay, thanks, Tim. It’s been my pleasure. It’s bit it’s just lovely to be able to talk to someone like you who understands the business the speaking and knows appreciate some of the different parts of the journey. So and people can reach me, I am on Instagram at OgeZogie. That’s my handle on Instagram. And my website is also simply OgeZogie.com. So that’s how people can reach me.

Tim McDonald 23:57
Oh, perfect. And we’ll make sure we have all those links in the blog post in the show notes on YouTube so people can not try and figure out how to spell that. So and for those of you you know watching right now, we just want to thank you so much for being part of this and being part of this experience with us in you know, one thing if you’ve never gotten to this point in the show before or you’re watching for the first time, is that we’re going to end the youtube broadcast, however, Oge has agreed to stay on with me for one additional question, and I’m going to ask her that, but the answer to that question is only available to our email subscribers. So if you just head over to speaking.business and sign up for our free weekly newsletter, you will get the exclusive content not only from Oge, but also from all of our other speakers who are on that I asked a different question to each and every week that we interview them. So thank you for watching and Oge, thank you for being with us.

Oge Zogie 25:00
My pleasure. Thank you, Tim. Thank you very much.

Jessica Miller-Merrell was a corporate HR professional when she started her blog in 2005 as a unique way to recruit sales people. When she was asked to speak about Twitter on a panel, she figured she better learn about it and started using it. Early on, Jessica’s first love was always and still is, human resources and recruiting, but she found herself consulting people with social media, and being pulled in other directions. Even having been a podcaster for the last 6 years, she’s had people ask about talking about podcasting, but that is not her niche. It’s the one thing Jessica wishes she would’ve released when she first started her own business. Know her niche, stay in her lane and focus on what she loves. 

What other lessons did Jessica Miller-Merrell share? 

• Speaking, whether in person or online is the cornerstone of her business
• Toastmasters was a way for Jessica to improve her speaking for board meetings and connecting with others through the power of speech
• A lot of paid speaking is trial and error
• Be sure to know your worth and know when to discount your services
• Before taking on any speaking opportunity, know what the overall goal is
• Live streaming on LinkedIn, Facebook or YouTube can be a great way to connect with your community
• Be sure to let people know what products and services you offer when you speak

 

If you have trouble viewing the video, check it out on YouTube. Be sure to subscribe to our YouTube Channel and get notified when new shows are added. 

Who is Jessica Miller-Merrell?

You can with Jessica Miller-Merrell on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram,  LinkedIn and check out her podcast and the Workology website. 

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Below is the full transcript from the show with Jessica Miller-Merrell. Please note that there may be some errors as it was auto transcribed using Otter.ai. (referral link that provides us with a 1-month Premium Pass

Tim McDonald 0:00
All right. Well welcome everybody to the business of speaking show. I am your host, Tim McDonald. And today I am joined by somebody that I am so glad to have here. Jessica Miller-Merrell. How are you doing, Jessica?

Jessica Miller-Merrell 0:13
I’m doing great. Thanks for having me on here.

Tim McDonald 0:15
Oh, no, I’m so grateful that you agreed to do this. I know, we’ve been connected online for years and years. And I believe we only got to meet in person once, but it was a great opportunity. So yeah, really, for those tuning in for the first time, the business is speaking show is really focusing on not what the speakers talk about onstage. But really how they got started, and their journey to the stage and what they’ve learned along the way. For people who are thinking about getting involved in speaking, just getting a speaking business launched. Or as 2020 has taught us, no matter what we think we know, as speakers, we don’t know too much of anything the world has taught us. So with that being said, Jessica, I’d really love to dive in. Before we get back to the beginning stages of when you got started. Tell us a little bit about what you’re doing now how speaking plays a role in your business today.

Jessica Miller-Merrell 1:10
So I run a community called Workology, it’s a human resources and recruiting online destination. And we provide resources, support, and a variety of different ways, mostly digital these days to help human resources in HR recruiting professionals support their organizations, and themselves as individuals personally and professionally.

Tim McDonald 1:34
Well, that is fantastic. And so, you know, I’m sure and I know, I met you because we were at a conference and they believe you’re involved in speaking at that. As I was, um, but you know, tell us a little bit about, you know, how does the speaking play a part in your business today.

Jessica Miller-Merrell 1:54
So, speaking, whether in person or online is really the cornerstone of my business, whether I’m training HR recruiting professionals on the newest and latest like technologies, or connecting with people live on LinkedIn live or, or our Facebook Live and small groups, but I’m sharing resources and best practices and helping them become better HR and recruiting professionals. So without speaking, I would just be tweeting and you know, that’s so 2010.

Tim McDonald 2:29
Well, you’re aging us now, because we’re both OGs, when it comes to Twitter. But, yes, tell us, you know, how did this all start for you? When did you first get involved in speaking? Were you always running your own business? Or did you work for somebody else? And then how did that all evolve for you?

Jessica Miller-Merrell 2:46
So I was a corporate HR professional, and I started a blog in 2005, I was trying to recruit salespeople. So that’s kind of how I got started. Because I was looking for something different to connect to the sales professionals inside and outside that I was trying to hire at my company. And I wasn’t a recruiter, I was an HR director that was responsible for a team of recruiters and HR professionals. So I was trying to figure out, like, how do I reach these people in scale? And why I started the blog, I was a member of Toastmasters, and really wanted to find a way to connect with the community, but then also improve my speaking skills because they were really limited to workplace presentations, or if somebody from the corporate team asked me to talk during a board meeting, and that was pretty much it.

Tim McDonald 3:36
Yeah, I’ve you know, it’s interesting, as you say that, because I’ve heard so many other speakers talk about, you know, the experience that they have, or they didn’t really consider it speaking. But it really was the foundation for the early days of their speaking. So I’m just kind of curious, when you you know, you mentioned Toastmasters. And I know that you know, several people have mentioned that. What did that do that was different than the experience you’re getting in the workplace in front of those, you know, trainings or meetings that you were getting up and talking at.

Jessica Miller-Merrell 4:10
It was an organized system, or process and I was connecting with different kinds of people. So it wasn’t just me and human resources talking about you know, here’s the book of the month or here’s the update on staffing levels for for the division that I was responsible for. I was listening to other people talk about different topics. And then in Toastmasters, you get to speak on different topics yourself. So you make the presentation. It felt a lot like college speaking class or speech class, but it was more meaningful because it had a purpose. I was trying to be a better speaker, not necessarily to become a paid speaker, which that has as a result of what I mean Toastmasters has has led me to that place, but just be a better connector, either online or in person. With the power of speech.

Tim McDonald 5:03
And so when you’ve evolved through all this and you know, with being in the workplace with being involved in Toastmasters. And then do you remember the first time somebody asked you, you know, to speak and get paid? Or were you always kind of, as soon as you went out there asking to get paid to speak.

Jessica Miller-Merrell 5:25
Um, so I, I want to talk first about maybe one of the first times that I got asked to speak as like an expert. And it was really the reason I got on Twitter. Actually, in 2008, I was using social media to recruit and I had started the blog and, and people were starting to notice. And so somebody asked me to be on a panel. And the moderator was like, Can you figure out this tweeter thing? Could you try it because we want to talk about it. And that’s the whole reason I really started focusing on Twitter was because that was what the panel asked me specifically to talk about, I was seeing success in recruiting on MySpace, if you remember MySpace, and forums, not necessarily Twitter. But that was the first real speaking opportunity that I felt like the Toastmasters work and kind of the blog. And what I was doing was kind of all coming together. As far as my first paid events. It was for a government agency, they asked me to talk about how to use social media for recruiting. And I was really nervous, I probably negotiated very badly. But the presentation I thought went pretty good. I mean, they asked me to come back. And so I think a lot of speaking, especially when it’s paid is trial and error. But most importantly, you have to know your worth, and understand when it is going to be discounted speaking, like for nonprofit, or something like that, or it might be in an in kind donation, or paid opportunity for you or kind of depends on where you think it’s going to impact your business the most.

Tim McDonald 7:06
I’m so glad you brought those things up. You know, there’s so many different ways that we can look at, you know, speaking and being a professional speaker, which, obviously, most people would think professional means you’re getting paid. But there’s other ways that you’re getting value out of this. And can you just dive into a little bit of those, like, that you just described, and how they, you know, how you look at it, how you’ve processed that in your business.

Jessica Miller-Merrell 7:34
So, um, I feel like everything I have to every time I get a speaking opportunity, and when I think of speaking opportunities, it can be as simple as going live on Facebook, right, where you’re talking about a topic, live streaming has really changed the game. I know, we’re streaming live right now, it allows you access to a much larger community or a targeted community that you didn’t have before, when you know, we were all on our phones and our blackberries tweeting away. So you have to decide in each instance like what the overall goal is. For me, if I’m being asked to me to keynote a conference, then yes, it’s a it’s a paid opportunity. Unless there’s some sort of partnership or or relationship happening. I’m keynoting, here in Austin in a few weeks, the ATD conferences, training and development conference here in Austin, we’re focusing on live speaking, how training how to make that happen using the internet, I also think you need to think about the relationships and partnerships that you build, because they lend to other opportunities. For example, we kind of kicked this off and said, we’ve met in person once. But we have been social media friends and connected for over 10 years. So you and I have followed each other and have a relationship and who knows where this opportunity to speak from your show what how we might partner together in the future. So I’m not saying every opportunity should be unpaid. But I think that you should think about the bigger picture and how it might be able to help you. Anytime I podcast, I also looked at as again as an opportunity to drive people to my community, share with them what I know, and then talk about the products and services that I have available. That’s one thing I think people don’t do enough of when they speak and it’s something that I’ve been working on is talk about, here’s a product or service and ask people invite them to come to your community, and or buy or learn more about your service. Otherwise, you’re just sending goodwill, and goodwill doesn’t pay the bills.

Tim McDonald 9:44
That’s so true. I’ve been learning that lesson myself here and continue to learn it. Um, you know, you you mentioned something and I know you know you you’re mentioning the early days and even going back to MySpace and you know, starting blogging In 2005, and I mean, today people are kind of, you know, oh blog, you know, and, and but, I mean, it’s still so relevant. But now you’re mentioning podcast you’re mentioning getting on shows like this, looking at events or conferences that you can go to that provide that opportunity. These are all marketing opportunities, right? And how do you, you know, how did you learn that this was something that was working for you, and that you knew that it was something that you want to do? Because it does marketing like this takes a lot of your time. And it’s a big commitment. So how did you kind of realize that this was for you and going to work?

Jessica Miller-Merrell 10:40
I think for me, I would say focus on your wheelhouse, don’t take every speaking opportunity. For example, I think I’ve been podcasting for six years, which is a while in the podcasting world. And I think I’ve done one presentation on podcasting, like how to do it. It’s not something I can talk about it. But it’s not in my core offering for the products and services and the audience that I reach. Now, if I decided to launch a podcast or a course on how to make a podcast, then yes, I would be speaking about podcasting all over the place. So find those places where you can really talk about what your area of expertise is, whatever product or service that you sell is, and don’t say yes to every single thing. So if somebody came to me today and said, Jessica, I want to talk about like, could you talk about podcasts, and how to do them, I would probably say, I probably don’t have anything on the schedule until November or after Thanksgiving. Or here’s a friend of mine who’s really awesome that does this that you should connect with. And so now I am expanding my network of influence and building relationships even further, while managing my time because, honestly, I think about, okay, I don’t have a course to sell. I’m just gonna be talking about podcasting. At the end of the day, like, how much is my time worth? If it’s going to take me three hours to make the presentation and then one hour to present those four hours of my time? What is that in dollar value? And do I think I’m going to get that back in the next, I would say 12 to 24 months from that opportunity? And if the answer’s no, then you make the recommendation? If the answer’s yes, then more power to you. But I think that’s the biggest mistake that new speakers make is they try to do all the things. So focus on what you’re really good at the area that either either everybody’s asking you about, or is your business and and speak on those subjects.

Tim McDonald 12:37
I love the fact that you mentioned about referring out to somebody else and kind of building that that relationship through that method. Outside of Toastmasters, which I know you said was a great resource for you early on, you know, has there been other people that you’ve connected with that have really helped you in the speaking business and getting opportunities in you know, with them giving to you as much as you giving to them?

Jessica Miller-Merrell 13:04
I’m sure that you’ve probably had other guests talk about the National Speakers Association. I have been a member briefly, it really wasn’t for me, and just because of the amount of time that it was taking. But I did find a number of people who are speakers like me in different areas that I kind of connected with on a friend level and kind of a peer level where we’ve been able to talk openly and candidly about what’s working and what’s not working. The other thing that I’ve done has been doubled, doubling down on live video, which I’m so glad specially considering what has occurred in the last 12 or six months, seven months for us is I really focused on building revenue streams online and through on demand courses and content and membership communities also. So the last year and a half, I’ve focused a lot on live video getting better at live video, practicing talking with others, I’ve done the podcast, but live video is different. So that has been incredibly helpful because now if the media calls, boom, I can get online and I can talk about a subject very quickly. And I have kind of the sound bites and I’m prepared on the fly. That has been incredibly helpful for me too.

Tim McDonald 14:24
So I obviously you know, I’ve been doing live video for probably 11 years I guess. But when you when you are looking at making the transition from a voice environment to a, you know, video environment, what are some of the unique challenges and things that people need to be aware of?

Jessica Miller-Merrell 14:48
lighting? I think that’s the biggest challenge. I have a ring light in front of me. And then I have other studio lights I don’t have them on right now but when I’m filming YouTube stuff for myself We will have a variety of lighting. So you want to think about your background lighting, a quiet set a good microphone, those are really important and they can set you apart from from others. For women, it’s incredibly important to make sure you have a colorful shirt on, have some makeup on look, you know, young and refresh to lighting is going to help with that, too. So that’s, that’s fantastic. But those are kind of the fundamentals. I think, once you anybody can start again, live video is amazing, because anybody can do it. But it also means everybody can do it. And then you can really stand out from the pack that you’re different or better and, or well versed at this live video thing. So popping up your camera or your phone, looking straight into the, into the camera versus down here where you know, your eye kind of wonders and just just try to start talking and create a connection.

Tim McDonald 15:58
And that connection. I know when you’re up on stage or in front of a room of people, it’s so easy because you can read their body language you can see, you know, and interact with them. How do you create that through a camera?

Jessica Miller-Merrell 16:13
Through asking questions, through moving your hands and kind of being a little crazy. I mean, with videos, live video, in particular, sometimes you have to amp up kind of the emotions and the facial expressions so that it can come through to the other people who are watching. I also like to ask questions, and look seek engagement. So if people go crazy over one part of my presentation, even if it’s just an ad lib, or something I threw together on a Facebook Live and a group that says to me, I need to rethink this and maybe expand on this topic. And that might be next week’s topic, or YouTube video or a new presentation that I’m going to be giving where I’m offering people a chance to buy a course or something that I am selling. So video is awesome. Live video is awesome, because you can test your your market to understand what resonates with them. One of the courses that we sell is for HR certification. So HR professionals take an exam, kind of like the bar exam, but for HR. And so I have a group a free group with about 4000 people, and I go live two or three times a week over there. And and sometimes it’s just random sometimes it’s planned. We have a push for some marketing, or I’m answering a question. But a lot of times it’s just me throwing something out there just to test the market and see is this gonna resonate with people. And really live video allows you to do that. So you can ask questions, and then you have great market research for your paid presentation or you new webinar or whatever you’re going to be speaking at.

Tim McDonald 17:51
Well, I love that. Well, I know we’re kind of getting close to the end here. So one of the things I love asking my guest is if you were to go back knowing what you know now to when you first started your business, what piece of advice would you give yourself?

Jessica Miller-Merrell 18:11
Niche Niche Niche Niche. Um, in the beginning, I got lots of activity from social media work and career consulting and my my passion, my love is human resources and recruiting that community of people. So I wasted a lot of time and had a lot of conversations and with people doing its social media consulting and other things that weren’t really what I what I loved. I think it was confusing to my customers or my community sometimes what exactly does she do, but now it’s very clear, I help the human resources and recruiting community, and we probably provide resources for them to be very successful. It’s scary to Niche and to be really specific, because it feels like oh my gosh, I’m going to miss out on all these other opportunities. But the reality is that it’s more it’s you spend a lot more time inventing new processes and doing all these new things because you’re so broad, so I could go back I would just say hey Jessica, focus on HR, that’s what you’re good at. That’s what you know, and just get out there and do your thing.

Tim McDonald 19:21
I think that is one of the best ways to kind of wrap things up here. So great advice. Jessica, how can people learn more about you connect with you online?

Jessica Miller-Merrell 19:31
So our communities called workology so you can go to workology.com And we have over 8000 articles and courses for HR and recruiting professionals. You can simply when you get to the website, go to the Facebook chat that’s there in messenger that’s going to be me or somebody on my team and it’s a great way to connect with me. You can also email me at help@workology.com. And then I’ll be able to, to answer questions or talk more about human resources.

Tim McDonald 20:00
Fantastic. Thank you so much for joining us today, Jessica. And thank you for watching. And if you are watching for the first time on YouTube, this is the part of the show where we are going to sign off of YouTube. However, Jessica agreed to stay on with me and I get to ask her one additional question. And that question is only going to be available to our email subscribers. So if you head over to speaking dot business and just sign up for free for our email list, it’s a weekly email that comes out, you will get the exclusive content and the answer to the question that I am going to ask Jessica right after we sign off here. So thank you so much for watching.

When Mike Ganino moved back to Southern California from Chicago, he was ready to become a TV host in his own travel show. Hoping someone would discover him on Sunset Blvd didn’t work. He ended up going to a wine party, and after a few glasses of wine and a conversation with a business owner, he was asked if he could help their business scale beyond their 10 locations and double in size. Having done it many times before in business, he said yes. And what he learned was he didn’t like consulting. Instead of saying no, he spun the idea of working with them into doing a two day workshop to teach the leadership team, instead of consulting where he’d have to come back every year. And that was the start of Mike’s speaking business. 

When Mike began his speaking business, he combined his theatre and improv background with his business experience. Once, he was asked to give a talk and thought an honorarium was something he would have to pay until he Googled what it meant. He would actually get paid! Eventually, people who had hired him to talk, asked him back. They didn’t want him to talk again, but they did want him to work with their executives on how to become better speakers. So today, Mike’s speaking business is a bit meta. He speaks about speaking. And he got to where he is by using the first rule of improv. Saying “Yes, and…” to opportunities instead of saying no.  

What other lessons did Mike Ganino share? 

• The 3 things Mike realized when he started his speaking business – and the 1 thing he would’ve done sooner
• Speaking for free can be very valuable – if you are speaking in front of the right audience
• Know the industries you’ve worked in and who’ve you worked with – you know how you can help them and they already know you
• There’s no magic number when it comes to what you charge
• How paying for 15 minutes with Dorie Clark provided business insights
• Think of people who can hire you. What publications do they read? What podcasts do they listen to? Start writing and being a guest on those 
• Create opportunities to “Speak for me” 

 

If you have trouble viewing the video, check it out on YouTube. Be sure to subscribe to our YouTube Channel and get notified when new shows are added. 

Who is Mike Ganino (in Mike’s words)?

You can with Mike Ganino on Facebook, or where he loves hanging out: Instagram , and check out his website and get his free Story Craft guide . 

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Below is the full transcript from the show with Mike Ganino. Please note that there may be some errors as it was auto transcribed using Otter.ai. (referral link that provides us with a 1-month Premium Pass

Tim McDonald 0:01
All right. Well welcome everybody to the business of speaking show. I am your host, Tim McDonald. And today, I’m really excited to be joined by my special guest, Mike Ganino, how are you doing?

Mike Ganino 0:13
I’m doing well. Thank you. Thanks for Thanks for having me.

Tim McDonald 0:16
No, and it’s so exciting to have you here. Your baby at home and I got plenty of coffee and everything. So I’m sure we’re ready to rock and roll. Right.

Mike Ganino 0:25
Very new baby at home last night was actually her first night home. So this is this is me unfiltered and exhausted.

Tim McDonald 0:34
Oh, I don’t know about the exhausted part. But I love the unfiltered parts.

Mike Ganino 0:39
We’re gonna do it all. No, nothing. Nothing’s off off limits here today on the business of speaking.

Tim McDonald 0:45
All right, well, for those of you just tuning in for the first time, to let you know the business is speaking show really isn’t to focus on what the speakers talk about onstage. But it’s really to talk about how they got started on their journey to the stage and what they’ve learned along the way since they’ve been on stage. And I always like to say what they wish they would have known when they first started. So if you are a first time speaker, if you’re thinking about getting involved in speaking, or as 2020 has taught us, no matter what you think, you know, life has a way of reminding us that we don’t know shit. So with that being said, um, before we dive into how you started, Mike, can you tell us a little bit about, you know, what your accomplishments are now what you talk about and some of the highlights of you know, your career is in the business of speaking.

Mike Ganino 1:37
I think Yeah, I’m kind of like a meta person at this point. Because I, I speak about speaking, which is a which is like a very meta thing. I these days, I find myself helping people around storytelling around giving presentations around how to show up on camera, that’s a lot of the work these days is how to give better video presentations, or how to deliver really captivating, you know, videos for their websites or something like that. But I work with people around storytelling around how to show up and perform on stage my background was in I was in the business world as a as a restaurateur for a long time. And simultaneously was an actor, I was doing improv I was in Chicago doing commercials doing things like that. And so when I first started speaking, I kind of combined those two things and said, Okay, well, I know business. And I know the you know, how to create an experience whether, you know, on stage for someone, or in I think restaurants are kind of like business theater in a way, you know. And so that is kind of how I ended up in that world. And then slowly people, I would go and speak at a conference for, you know, a hotel chain, or a national restaurant brand or something. And the people would say, Hey, can you We would love to work with you again, this year. We worked with you last year. And I was like, oh, sounds great. What do you want me to speak about, you know, this is you want me to do the same talk? And they’re like, actually, no, we don’t want you to talk. What we want is for you to help our executives, because everybody loves listening to you. And they hate listening to our executive team when they speak at our conference. So can you help them and coach them? And I was like, Oh, yeah. And that’s what I realized. You know, there’s this magic and helping people figure out how to show up and how to communicate and how to actually really deliver a message that that is meaningful, and it does something and so that’s, that’s what I’ve been up to, that’s how I spend my days these days.

Tim McDonald 3:31
Well, I love it. And I know I just recently connected with you online and get to listen and watch some of the stuff that you put out the content and it just you know, you are really good at what you do. So I can understand how people are gravitated towards you wanting to help them improve their storytelling. So let’s get jump back to how did this all start for you? How did you go from being in restaurants to actually getting up on stages?

Mike Ganino 4:01
Yeah, that’s like a weird, like, how did this How did this occur? It was initially kind of accidental. I had sold a restaurant brand that I was a partner in, in Chicago and so we moved to LA after that because we were like, you know what, let’s get out of Chicago. We’ve been here a long time. Let’s go I’m from Southern California. So we said let’s go back to Southern California. And when I first got here, I thought I would do like a travel show like I would become like a TV show host because again I had been doing I had been at second city and improv Olympic and The Annoyance I’d been on stages performing as a as a as an actor for a long time in addition to working in the restaurant industry. And so when I got here, I was like I’m gonna do like a travel. I want to do like a travel show host I want to be like a travel and foodie show host. And I and I guess I thought like, do you just wander around Sunset Boulevard until someone says you you deserve a show! That’s not how it works, by the way. So I was at a party one night and I There was somebody who owned a retail like a food retail brand. And we’d had glasses of wine. And he was talking about the challenges as they were growing beyond their, you know, 10 locations to doubling in size and going out of state. And I, that was my experience. I was very good at growing brands like that. And so I’d had enough wine that I was like, Well, here’s what you got to do. You got to do this, you got to do that. You got to make sure this and you got to tell these people that. And he’s like, Oh, cool. I’d love to connect with you. Sure. So I gave him my number. He called me and said, Can you come talk to our, to my executive team? I was like, yeah, I’ll come in. And at the end, he said, Okay, so we’d love to work with you. How do you work with people that I was like, Oh, I have no idea. Like, I have no clue, like, what do you want me to do. And so I started consulting. And I pretty quickly realized I didn’t like consulting, I did not like deliverables. I’m horrible at it. If I owe you anything, you’re not going to get it. I’m never gonna send it to you. So that isn’t a positive thing to be if you’re in business, you’re going to be out of business quickly if you don’t deliver what you promised. So I thought, maybe instead of doing these consulting gigs, I can go teach workshops. And so instead of coming in and doing it for you, I can teach your team how to do it. And I so I kind of spun that as why spend the money to have me come back every year versus me teaching your team to do it in a day or two workshop. And that worked. So I started doing workshops, and then somebody who had been in one of the workshops that I lead, she went on to run, she was like the president of an association. And she reached out to have me speak at their event. And I thought, Oh, this is so cool. I thought you had to be famous or an author at the time. I’m an author now, but I wasn’t then. And so I went to speak at this. Actually, the funny thing is, she reached out she said, here’s the honorarium. And I thought, I have to pay them this money to speak, they want me to pay them to speak, I didn’t realize they were going to pay me and I thought, well, I don’t know. Is it worth it? Is it worth? You know, am I gonna get that much money back out of this? I don’t have anything to sell these people, except if they buy a workshop someday. And so I googled it really quick and was like, how does an honorarium work, and I realized, they want to pay me that much money to come talk to them. Sweet. So I did that. And then I thought, great, I’m just gonna do that all the time, I put speaker on my website, speaker on my LinkedIn speaker on my Instagram, and they’re just all gonna show up much like I thought they were going to give me a travel show, if I just walked around Sunset Boulevard. And probably no surprise to anyone listening and watching the show. Putting speaker in my bio everywhere didn’t mean anyone hired me. So I went from having a really great first paid gig to, you know, thinking that that was going to keep happening, and it didn’t. And so I had to get really good at figuring out how do I go and find those gigs? How do I get in front of the right people, and that was in 2015. And that was the start of my speaking career, which led to creating the business I have now, which led to being the author of a book, I wrote one of the books in the dummies series, The for dummies series. I’m the executive producer of TEDx Cambridge. And it all started by me going out there and telling some guy what he needed to do in his business at a wine party. I don’t recommend that as a path to success, but it works for me.

Tim McDonald 8:05
Well, I love that. I think that you didn’t start out with a plan of this is what I’m gonna do. It really just started by having a conversation and probably being lucid enough to be able to say, Yeah, I can do that. So you know, I’m kind of curious. So as you really recognize that you could get paid for actually speaking up on stage on and like you mentioned, it’s not as simple as putting speaker in your bio. What were some of the things that you were learning back then what did you have to, you know, kind of figure out to kind of get people to know that you were a speaker and had something to offer versus just you labeling yourself as one?

Mike Ganino 8:47
I think the three big things I did is that I really quickly I realized that Where could I get the easiest, yes, was a great way to start. And for me, I thought, well, who wants to do what I’ve done, who wants to do what I’ve done? Who wants to hear from me? Well, I’m an award winning restaurateur. I’ve built and sold many companies, I’ve built and sold many companies, for other people and help them make a lot of money. The organizations that I’ve run, have won awards for being great places to work and favorite places to be we’ve won Innovation Awards. And so I thought, well, I could go out there and try to convince all of these people to hire me to come speak about leadership at their tech company or their bank. But that’s going to be a much harder road than going to the restaurant hotel world and saying, Hey, I know where you are. I know where you were, what you want. And I’ve done it. So let me come and help you. And so that was number one was realizing where’s the easier yes for me, where can I you know, it’s always about reducing risk for the buyer. And that includes speaking in workshops and training delivery. And so for me, that was the easiest yes was to go back and work with people in the restaurant, hotel space, even retail where they had a large number of hourly workers, creating an experience for guests. That kind of was my specialty. So that was number one. Number two was recognizing that the that I needed to go where they were. So once I realized that those were the places that the that I wanted to speak to restaurants, hotels, franchisees that I had to think about what do they read? And what kind of conferences do they go to? And that made it really easy for me to start to find like, what are all of the restaurant conferences in the US, and you start to realize, okay, there’s every state has a restaurant association, every state has a Lodging Association, then there are topical ones, the the Asian American Association of hoteliers in the US, there’s all of these different groups, I mean, McDonald’s franchisees have a ton of organizations of their own. So it made it so much easier for me to find them, because I knew who I was looking for. So I could reach out to conferences, I could write guest posts for brands that they would buy from, I went to food distributors who produced you know, blogs, and I said, Hey, can I write a blog for you, and I just was doing all of this, to get my name out, I went on every podcast I could find in the restaurant, hotel retail space, to really start to build a brand that people thought, Oh, I know this guy. And a year ago, they had never heard of me. So that was the second thing. And then the third one. And this is probably the I don’t know that it was a harder lesson learned. But it was the one that when I learned it, like really clicked for me. So there’s this idea that that some people, you know, feel negatively or put shame to people for speaking for free. Speaking for exposure. And I will tell you, I’ve made more money speaking for free in many years than I have made money speaking for a fee. So for me, my speaking fee is is between 10 and $15,000 for a keynote, I’ve done a free gig, which I’ve turned into two or three more keynotes, two or three more workshops. And then those one of those I got a keynote for another association that led to more gigs. And the challenge there the learning for me, because in the beginning, I did a bunch of free gigs and nothing happens because I was like, I went to a conference, I did a breakout session, I showed up like a keynote speaker. My presentation was very much that and I was speaking to people who owned, you know, a chain, a small chain of pizza restaurants, or they owned a bakery in Minnesota or something like that. Those people don’t hire speakers ever. And so I was speaking in front of them, I was in front of big audiences, 500 people 1000 people at the beginning, and no one was hiring me. So I wasn’t I was traveling on the airplane, I was paying my own thing I was speaking for free at these things. And all I had to offer them was me as a keynote speaker. And I realized that you know, the lady who owns the donut shop comes to this conference to learn tips and tricks and check out the latest hardware and software that she could use in her business. But she doesn’t come here to hire someone to lead a workshop for her team. And that was a huge lesson for me was that if you’re going to speak for free, then you need to make sure that the people in the room can can buy the thing that you have. So if you have workshops, if you have programs, if you are a keynote speaker and you’re speaking for free, then you need to be speaking in front of audiences who hire keynote speakers. Otherwise, you’re going to just spend a bunch of money traveling around the country and speaking in, you know, side rooms at the Holiday Inn or something. And so for me, that was a huge, that was the third lesson that I learned very quickly. I got because there was a moment where I thought maybe I suck, because nobody’s booking anything. I’ve done 10 free gigs and nothing, you know, people join my email list. But no one’s booking me for anything. So maybe I’m not good. And you know, and then I realize like, well, that’s not true. I’m pretty good. I know what I’m doing. I’ve been on thousands of stages. I’ve performed thousands of times as an actor. I’ve done thousands of orientations for new employees over the years. And I thought, okay, no, I probably pretty good. I could probably keep working on it. But that’s not the problem. What is the problem? And I realized the same thing that I knew from the restaurant industry, the same thing I realized from producing theater was that you have to go to a willing audience, and those audiences just couldn’t buy. And that was the third lesson and there is no shame in speaking for free. I’ve made hundreds of thousands of dollars speaking for free, because I knew I was in front of an audience who could hire me in the future.

Tim McDonald 14:20
I love that because I you know, one of the things I’m hearing from a lot of different people that are on the show is different philosophies on that, right. Like I always get paid or you know, if you’re gonna do it for free only do it this way. But I think that is great advice for anybody thinking about getting involved in or just starting to understand that. I’m kind of curious, like, you know, you mentioned like what you’re getting for your keynotes. Was it always that way or did you start out smaller and grow? How have you kind of known when has been the right time to raise your rates and what to charge?

Mike Ganino 14:57
I wish there was like a magical number. You know, there’s there’s things that I hear lots of people say that they say, oh, i, you raise your rates when you’re getting so busy. So you’re so busy. So supply and demand, you can raise your rates? Maybe, possibly. But if if there was a lack of m&ms out there and m&ms decided they were going to charge $20 a bag, we probably wouldn’t pay $20 a bag, we’d move on to something else. So I don’t always agree with that. I think that you have to really be something people want. And there can’t be someone else who’s a funny speaker, a good speaker, an entertaining speaker, who doesn’t $2,000 less than you. So if you are someone who has a brand, where it’s like, No, we got to get that guy, we need that woman, then of course, yes, you can raise your fee. That’s why Simon Sinek can charge you know, $100,000 I think for a keynote, it’s why Brene Brown can charge $100,000 for a keynote because people want that name there. But for the rest of us, there’s something there’s more of a messy mix. So that very first gig that I did, I got paid $2500 to do. And then the next one, I got paid like $5,000 to do so they came to me with those numbers. And I was like, yeah, that’s my fee. And then I did probably 20 gigs for free. I got paid nothing. I traveled around the country on my own dime. Speaking at every state restaurant and Lodging Association, I realized quickly that my topic that worked was culture, like culture and leadership. And so I started reaching out to every state HR Association. So I started doing that I probably did 20 gigs for free, spent my own money doing it. And it was probably towards the end of that, that I realized, hold on, I need to I need to rethink this because no one’s booking me. Something’s up here. And so at that point, towards the end of that, I said, Okay, well, is it 2500? Is it 5000. And so I just decided myself that it was $5,000 that that was my speaking fee. So when people would reach out, that’s what I would quote. I started getting that pretty consistently. I got I started writing in a national like retailer magazine, I had a monthly paid column, I got paid every month to be a writer. In a in a national column. I wrote about culture, whenever I wanted. That raised my status, I did a huge string of podcasts. So people in that world were really knowing me and hearing me. And so then I started getting comfortable just saying $7500. And I got that many, many times. And then in 2018, the book that I wrote Company Culture for Dummies came out. And ahead of that when I knew it was coming out. And when I was doing all of the the information around it, I was getting ready to move from $7500 to $10,000. And so I did that, right. When the book came out, I did the jump to $10,000. And that was easy. People said yes. And so I was like $12,000 let’s see what happens there. And so it’s pretty consistently now between 10 to 15. For for me,

Tim McDonald 17:55
No, well, thank you for sharing that. Because I know it’s not something that a lot of speakers share is what they get paid. And so I know a lot of people, especially starting are really thinking about how that progression looks and works. So I’m, you know, I’m kind of thinking about, you know, a lot of what you’re talking about, and I don’t want to assume anything, it sounds like you just figure it out on your own. Was there any, any resources, any kind of networks that you were involved with that really, you know, you learn from and and kind of picked up on? Or was it truly just kind of you learning by trial and error?

Mike Ganino 18:33
Uh, you know, in the beginning, I definitely, like sought out people that I thought how can this Can I can I learn from this person I did, like, back, back when I very first started in 2015. You could, um, I think they still exist, but there was like a program. I don’t remember what it’s called, but you could buy like 15 minutes with an expert, you know, they had like a thing where you could pay by the minute. And so I did that with Dorie Clark, Dorie Clark’s a best selling multiple time author, reinvent yourself and entrepreneurial you. And so I bought like 15 minutes with her. And I was like, What do I need to do? And she gave me really great advice. It was 15 minutes, it was super powerful. And she gave me really clear advice on like, these are the things that are not worth the time. And these are the things that are worth the time. And so she said, if you’re going to start a podcast, then you should start a podcast and you should go and interview all of the top restauranteurs that you would want to work with all of the top hotel leaders, all of those people don’t interview other authors, because those authors are not going to hire you. Go interview for a business sense, go interview the people that you think should know about you, and the people who might want to hire you. She’s like, so go start doing that. I didn’t end up doing that. But I did my own version of that. She talks she talks about getting a an article like writing in a column for for a national, you know, trade magazine or something, which is much easier than writing for like the New York Times or something. And so that advice was really helpful advice. Like, how do you actually like become a known person. And that advice was really helpful to me. And then outside of that, I started going on so many podcasts and kind of building my own community with people there. I went to several speaker trainings, some are great, some are a waste of time, the content was, but I met people through that. Um, yeah, and those are, those are probably the big things I went to, you know, I went to different events, different trainings, different things like that, and just started meeting people through that world. But it wasn’t, I don’t think I had like a group of speaker friends until I was already pretty well known. I was super focused on becoming friends with people who could hire me.

Tim McDonald 20:40
I love that piece of advice. And I can’t believe how quickly Our time has gone on here. So one last question I have for you, before we wrap up is, you know, knowing what, you know, today, if you went back to, you know, five years ago, when you started this business, what would a piece of advice would you give yourself back when you started,

Mike Ganino 21:00
I think the biggest thing is recognizing that I always say there’s three options for speaking there’s speak for fee, you can get paid money from someone else and give you a check, you speak and move on. There’s speak for free, which is what I was talking about. If if you’re going to speak for free, make sure you know how to get value out of it, maybe you need video, maybe you need photos, maybe there’s people you want to meet at that event, maybe you just want to travel to New Orleans or something that was my case, once they were paying. They didn’t pay me but they paid for my trip and I got to go to New Orleans for the first time. And that was enough for me. Or maybe you’re able to leverage that audience to book you for workshops or services that you do outside of it. And then the third one, I would go back to myself, those two I kind of knew quickly at the beginning, speak for fee speak for free. The third one I would have done much earlier, which I call speak for me. Meaning you create your own events, you create your own opportunities, instead of waiting to get picked, build an audience that really wants to hear from you build an audience that you can help, and then do your own event, do your own offering for them. And I would have and I do that now today when I’m working with speakers, when I’m working with people that want to become speakers, when I’m working with leaders who need to communicate better. I put my own events here in LA I do my own events all over the country. And for me, I wish I had realized I could have done that much earlier. Because while you’re sitting around and waiting for someone to pick you, you can go pick yourself

Tim McDonald 22:24
out this has been absolutely fantastic Mike. So how can people watching learn more about you get in touch with you if they want to start working with you?

Mike Ganino 22:32
Nice. Well, I’m super easy once people figure out how to spell my last name. It’s super, it’s super easy to find me. And the last thing by the way is Ga ni no so if you type in Mike Ganino Ga ni no, I’m the one who’s gonna pop up. There’s great SEO and having a name that’s not that common. So you can go to MikeGanino.com/storycraft as well. If you’re thinking of like, I want to be a speaker, I want to tell better stories. I have this free guide that helps you figure out how to weave in stories into your speech over at MikeGanino.com/storycraft, and then you get my email address. And you can ask me questions or hang out with me. I’m also MikeGanino on all the socials. I love Instagram. And so come hang out with me on Instagram and I will happy to answer questions and chat with you over there.

Tim McDonald 23:16
Well, thank you so much, Mike. And thank you for watching. If this is your first time watching at the end of one of our shows. We’re going to end the youtube broadcast. But Mike is agreed to stay on with me for one additional question that I’m going to ask him and the only way that you get this content is if you sign up for our email list over at speaking dot business and just join up for free and you will get the exclusive content once a week. So we are going to sign off here right now and we will see you next week. And Mike I will see you in just a minute.

Mike Ganino 23:50
Bye, everybody.

How did Savannah Peterson get to speak on stage at AARP and the World Economic Forum’s future of work events, alongside the likes of Madeleine Albright and Adam Grant? It all started 6 years ago with intention. 

Savannah Peterson looked for the lowest hanging fruit. She was a woman in technology and only about 18% of people in this industry were women. When it came to speakers on stage, it was something like 6 to 9% were women at the time. She didn’t look at this as an obstacle, but did see a real opportunity. A chance to sneak in and to make some noise in that space a bit out the gate, with intention.

What other lessons did Savannah Peterson share? 

• Use crowdsourcing for your speaking topics, and more
• Create a website with topics you talk about, some content and testimonials
• The company you work for or the words you write, don’t make you a good speaker
• Even being very confident on stage, fear can still strike
• Create video to let people see you speak, even if it’s not in front of a live audience
• It’s much easier to get excited on stage when you talk about what you want to talk about
• When you ask questions about how you can add value, you may find yourself on more stages
• When you discount your work, you discount your worth 
• If you are just started out, document your speaking

 

If you have trouble viewing the video, check it out on YouTube. Be sure to subscribe to our YouTube Channel and get notified when new shows are added. 

Who is Savannah Peterson?

You can with Savannah Peterson on YouTube, LinkedIn, Twitter,  Facebook, and Instagram , and check out her website for speaking and testimonials as well as her savvymillenial.com and theWTF.club sites. 

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Below is the full transcript from the show with Savannah Peterson. Please note that there may be some errors as it was auto transcribed using Otter.ai. (referral link that provides us with a 1-month Premium Pass

Tim McDonald 0:03
All right. Well welcome everybody to the business of speaking show. I am your host, Tim McDonald. And I am joined by a very good friend of mine, Savannah Peterson, how you doing Savannah?

Savannah Peterson 0:14
doing so good. Tim, I am absolutely delighted to be here and to be talking about speaking something that we both love. Thanks for having me.

Tim McDonald 0:24
Oh, well. And I know we also share a joy and passion for community as well. So it’s a, that’s how we first met. So it’s so I’m really looking forward to this conversation. But for those of people who might be tuning in for the first time, the business is speaking show really doesn’t focus necessarily on what speakers talk about on the stage. But it’s really about how they got started. And their journey to getting up on the stage. And then what they’ve learned along the way. So if you are thinking about becoming a speaker, if you are just getting started in you’re speaking, or if 2020 hasn’t taught us anything, regardless of where you are on the journey, surprise, we never know what to expect. So with that, I would invite anybody who’s in the speaking industry, or thinking of getting involved in speaking industry to really tune in and listen to all of our guests and what they had to say. So with that being said, Before we get into like where you started, Savannah, I’d really like to know, you know, what have been some of the just so our audience can have some context. What kind of speaking Have you done now? You know, where are you and what is your business look like as a speaker now?

Savannah Peterson 1:33
Yes, I was very intentional about my speaker journey. So it’s super fun to share it with y’all today. So you can find me on NBC Nightly News, and on today’s show periodically is one of their consumer technology experts. I’ve spoken at South by Southwest for the last five years, including South by Southwest virtual this year. I’ve been on stage in Paris, Italy, Denmark, London, all over New Zealand. I’m one of the New Zealand high tech award judges and do a lot of speaking all over that country. And my favorite event, last year was speaking at AARP and the World Economic Forum’s future of work events, alongside the likes of Madeleine Albright and Adam Grant.

Tim McDonald 2:22
Well, fantastic. Well, let’s dive right into, because that is so impressive. How did this all start for you?

Savannah Peterson 2:32
So I’ll, I’ll be really transparent about this out the gate, I’ve always been a little bit of a ham, I enjoy sage, I understand many people are afraid of stage, I am terrified only in the 45 seconds when someone’s reading my bio, and I am walking out onto that stage. That’s when the fear hits me. But once I start talking, I’m usually usually All right. So I’m very lucky, I was not born with the stage fright gene. And for me, it came from a place of going to events and like you loving community, I wanted to engage with the technology community and meet my peers. And I gotta be honest with you, and I suspect you’ve had this experience as well. Some of the speakers I saw on stage, they weren’t that good. And I think a lot of the reason that they were put on that stage was because they worked for a very famous company, like one of the Fang companies, or they had written a book that had gotten a lot of press and or subscriber buy in or whatever. But none of those things actually indicate that someone’s going to be a good speaker. And when I looked at those stages, I thought Hold on a second, I don’t see anyone who looks like me. And I think I can do better than they’re doing. So I very intentionally, just started knocking on doors and banging my way through and pretty much telling everyone I knew even though I didn’t really know what that meant that I was a speaker and that I would be happy to speak at your event. And and one by one, they slowly come together.

Tim McDonald 4:04
So I know You make it sound so easy and so simple that you just knock on doors and telling people that that’s what happened. But I know it’s never that easy. So what was it like for you? And what doors did you know to knock on? And who are you telling your speaker? How are you telling them and you know, share a little bit more about that so we can understand what that process was like.

Savannah Peterson 4:30
I did just say I’m glad to call that I was certainly not quite that easy and lots of no’s and lots of silence in the beginning. So a couple things to do out the gate. I wasn’t necessarily good at this. I really just blanketed everything but I think you figure out what you’re what you’re passionate about when you when you have a really unique voice in and it doesn’t matter if you’re an expert. What matters is that you can talk about it and tell a story about it. Whatever that is. And for me, I looked at the lowest hanging fruit. So as a woman in technology, only about 18% of people in this industry are women on stages, it’s something like six to 9% are actually end up translating. It’s gotten a little bit better the last few years. But I saw that was a real opportunity. Now, I’m not necessarily saying that the only reason I’m good as because I’m a woman. But I saw that there was a chance to sneak in and to make some noise in that space a bit out the gate. Something else that has also been a huge asset for me at any stage in my journey, is the amount of videos that I have out with my face. If you do not have a video up right now, it’s very hard for someone to trust that you’re going to become an excellent speaker. And guess what it doesn’t have to be fancy or produced, it can be like this, I’m sitting in my living room right now. And you can share a story with you can even have a friend interview like Tim’s interviewing me and, and having that content out there. It doesn’t have to be a perfect reel. But you do need to have a website that lists the things that you speak about with a little bit of content. And ideally, a testimonial. Honestly, even if it’s from a friend, or from a colleague who’s seen you speak in the office that will validate that you’ll add value to that and and I really, I took every opportunity I within my job at the time I had a job I wasn’t a solopreneur then and I was working for Shapeways 3d printing company. And I really took every opportunity to be the spokesperson for that company. So if you’re working for a company right now, and you think it could be doing more evangelism, whether that’s IRL kind of tricky right now, but depending on when you’re watching this video, it could be easier. It could also be doing weekly video shows or hosting happy hours for groups and just getting comfortable being on stage and talking to people or owning that stage. by yourself. It’s very true that the more people see you, the more they’ll book you. And the only way to get out there, especially right now is is to create a portfolio that shows off the type of stuff that you’d like to be doing, even if you’re not on those stages yet. And since we’re talking about the past, moving into the future, I just want to be really transparent about this, making money speaking is extremely hard. There is a small group of people at the top who make a lot of money, then there’s a group in the middle, which I sort of consider myself in where some years are really great. And some years are kind of up and down pandemics really thrown a wrench in all of that I lost a lot of money very quickly back in March. And but the the amount of time and the energy that you’re going to put into each talk is a lot. So in the beginning, I had a full time job, I was in a position to be able to dedicate a ton of time, it basically all of my personal time to developing some of my talks, some of the talks I was doing for work, but make sure that you’re balancing that out. Right now in particular, if you’re getting started speaking great opportunity to connect with organizers and folks through virtual conferences. On the flip side, you’re not getting the same exposure. If a conference organizer tells you 5000 people are gonna watch your virtual talk. They’re lying to you right now, I just went to an event with 15,000 people. And I had 11 show up to my live chat. Now that’s lovely, I’m happy to do this. But since this was for free, the ton of work that I put into that presentation, brand new presentation of mine, to reach 11 people tricky. So definitely make sure that when you’re when you’re starting out here, know that a lot of us don’t make money. Even when we’re at the top, I take on significant number of pro bono gigs for nonprofits every year or just things that I think would increase my visibility, but also know what your time is worth, because people will really take advantage of it. And until I started talking with some of the men that I know, in the industry, I was getting severely underpaid. And no one cares. No one cares. So no one’s going to look out for your speaking career besides you and and definitely the smartest thing I did out the gate was tell everyone that I wanted to be a speaker, because friends of mine who have never seen me speak knows that I’m a speaker. They don’t know what I do as a consultant, but they know that that’s the thing that I do. And they’ve seen a photo of me on stage. So tell you tell your friends, tell everyone you want to be doing it just like Tim’s doing right now.

Tim McDonald 9:17
So I, early on, in what you just said, you brought up something that was so interesting to me that you know, you knew and identified that kind of main bucket that you wanted to put yourself in. But then you also said about your website about putting the topics that you’re going to speak about. And I know personally, like that has been one of the biggest struggles for me starting out is knowing what should I put on there? You know, sometimes it’s just figuring out the bucket. And then more importantly, it’s like, what are those topics that I’m going to focus on? And how did you know because you just sounded so confident about just putting them in And I’m just wondering if you could share a little bit about that process that you went through for that?

Savannah Peterson 10:05
Absolutely, I do have a process behind it. And that’s probably why it’s more comfortable for me even some folks, and I bet you’ve seen me do this on the internet. So I’m a huge fan of crowdsourcing. And I asked my community regularly, what do you want to learn from me? What What can I help you learn? How can I help you? Quite frankly, and a lot of the time, that’s what informs my talks. I also asked folks, you know, what do you what do you trust me with and that can be, I realized, this sound, this might sound like, well, it’s easy for you to say you have an audience and you have a following. I didn’t when I started doing all of this. And it was really just a close group of friends, I call them my nest, who were there to inform me in the beginning. And they said, you know, Sav, you do a really great job of taking super complex technological concepts, and translating them into something that anyone that any audience can can interpret. So I realized that kind of translation generalist role was going to be my role. And I would encourage you to ask your friends and ask people, ask people who have booked you ask people who have hired you, ask an old boss, ask people what they think you’re really good at articulating about and it may totally surprise you, I, I have spoken about everything from from blockchain to gender diversity to mental and emotional health in entrepreneurs. And I have spoken at DevOps conferences to New Zealand planning conferences is quite quite all over the map. I think for me, it’s one of the themes that get me excited, because I’ll be transparent about this too. You’re going to talk to a lot of speakers who do two to five talks a year. I’m not one of those speakers, I do a bespoke presentation, every single time I get up and talk. I’ve never delivered the same talk twice. I don’t believe that’s what you’re paying me as a speaker, if you could watch the talk I’m about to give you online. Yeah, maybe there’s some value in me coming to wherever you are in the country to deliver that talk. But I don’t think that’s me bringing optimum value to the table. I actually think this is why I get rebooked more than a lot more than some of the other people I know. And some people who are even paid better or more famous than I am, is they know, every single time they booked me, they’re gonna get a totally new presentation. And so I suppose when I said when I talked about topics and things, I found my website, I’m really putting up buckets and large umbrella themes. It’s less specifically, what is remote work mean in 2020? I mean, I could do that. But what I what I would say instead, right now, as I talk about remote work, that could mean a lot of different things. I talk about community building, I talk about future technology and internal culture. But you can, you don’t have to have the speech written before you say it’s something that you talk about. And you know what I changed those words on my website every couple of years, based on I mean, I tend to speak on the hype curve. So my subject matter is often changing. But I’m not afraid to edit that. And I think remember that, like whatever you put up on that website to begin with, or whatever you have up in the pandemic, you could give it a complete and total makeover in in six months or two years. It doesn’t have to be what you talk about. I don’t actually, there’s only two stories that I still tell on stage today that I started telling on stage when I consider my pro career starting formally about six years ago, at South by Southwest. So and those are stories that are embedded into other talks. So you’re going to really iterate through a lot. Don’t put too much pressure on yourself with that, what do you end Oh, my gosh, most important thing that I did not say and if you take nothing from this, talk about what you want to talk about, it is so much easier to get excited on stage, or virtual land when you when you want to be talking about something and just because you’re good at something or you’re like a senior x or whatever at your job. But if you want to talk about flower arrangements or crochet, I’m looking at my art supplies to my left here, you can see them, do it, do whatever it is do that thing. Like what’s so awesome is my speaking and my source of income are not always aligned. And that’s kind of gorgeous. I like that I have this different thing that I get to do that is a different expression of myself.

Tim McDonald 14:27
I love that. You know, when you and I’m just looking at this from somebody who’s thinking of, you know, okay, I got my idea. I know what I want to talk about. Who do I know whose doors to knock on.

Savannah Peterson 14:45
So this is something I’m constantly learning as as I go through. So it’s kind of I think of it in buckets. So I think of it as what are events that I’ve loved in the past or admired in the past and I initially I made a list of about 15 or 20 of those and just threw in my calendar, there’s probably someone who’s done this where you could just download this, I did this manually during a calendar when all of their speaker application dates were due. And when, when their events were going to be each year, apply, even at my level and the sort of top tier level, a lot of us still apply to speak at these bigger events. And it doesn’t mean you can’t still charge. But you’re you’re showing the organization that you care enough to go through the application process, you’re respecting your fellow speakers by going through the same process that they went through. And, and you’re showing how you’re going to customize your content. So think about where you want to be. And that can be anything, right? Like, I wanted to travel the world. So I looked at conferences in Paris, London, and Denmark and New Zealand, because that’s what matters to me, you want to spend more time in Florida, look at every conference that’s near Tim in Florida, you can you can really do whatever you want with that. Second thing to do is and this kind of goes back to telling your friends but look at your friends who are in a leadership position, particularly near a marketing or events function. And you can do that either on LinkedIn or again like I do, I just crowdsource everything and just hope people are seeing my content will engage. But you can ask and say, Hey, who do I know, books speakers? Who do I know who is planning events for, in this case, 2022. I and and and just start asking questions. Rather than shoving yourself at someone, I would start asking to see if you can get interest with those folks, and then see what they’re looking for. In their next event. I’ve I found myself on more rosters by asking questions about how I could add value versus assuming they wanted x talk of mine, on their stage for their audience, then that I have for other things. And then, I mean, last but not least, I actually think this is perhaps the most important of all of them, is get really active on social media, with events and with other speakers, because speakers and events are always talking about speaking in events, we’re usually sharing the call for speakers from all of our favorite stuff. And and and and that also goes for, you know, some of the bigger national stuff but but even for local events, when I started speaking, I was speaking pretty consistently, more locally than anywhere else. I was living in New York City, I took every single chance I can to get in front of people in New York City, and then slowly expanded out from there. And so so do that, you know, follow your local events, coordinators, if they’re doing town halls leading up to the election, you don’t have to be political to be a moderator for something like that. It can be a nonpartisan experience. So look at all the the event folks out there and start shining it on that community because I’m proud of probably booked an equal amount of gigs through my website, as I have through Twitter, if not Twitter, more so. So even, you know, say that you’re a speaker, in your bio, guess what people are doing on LinkedIn, they’re searching for speakers, I probably booked five to 10 gigs through that feature alone.

Tim McDonald 18:01
Yeah. So the, you mentioned it a couple times. You know, I know you said mentioned you did a lot of free speaking early on, and even now you just did recently one for for nothing. You do a lot of nonprofits pro bono? How do you decide which one you’re gonna do for nothing? Or do consider it nothing? And which one do you consider only if you’re gonna get paid?

Savannah Peterson 18:29
a great question. So I have a personal rule. And this applies to my business as well as my speaking, it’s free or full price. And that’s it. I do not discount my work because there’s nothing cheap about the work that I do. So you’re either gonna get the full price quality of work without having to pay for it. If you’re a nonprofit, or, you know, I’ll I’ll do a cameo at a middle school or something local. I’m a sucker for the kids, I’ll pretty much do anything for free for kids. Although there is a teen program that pays me at Yale every summer so you can get paid to talk to kids do and and that’s actually one of my all time all time favorite programs. But the reason I have this framework is it’s great. Because I know that I’m going in I never think about a presentation as less than any other presentation and not that I would I care about speaking too much. It’s my favorite thing to do. It’s when I’m in flow. It’s honestly one of the things I think I was put on this earth to do. But I, I I never want to compromise myself or my rates or anyone who’s paid me full price either. So to me, I’m really evaluating out the gate before we even initiate our conversation. Do I think you’re going to be able to pay my five to 15 k rate for whatever it is that you need? Or do I think we’re looking at something where there’s not a chance in hell you can pay anywhere near that? And I should be looking to up the perk ante. So free again can also come with other things right. So just because you’re not getting a stipend or money you need to report government. I know you want Both gotten a really great travel out of speaking. And for me that can be, I don’t want to say more valuable, because that really diminishes the value of money and money, it’s necessary to have a business, we’re talking about that. But I, it’s far more valuable and meaningful to me, I think to, to get to go on all these adventures. And something to do when you do get offered some places will give you a per diem, or they’ll give you a travel budget, some of the more budget constrained events, but I really encourage you. And I should have been a little more zealous about this early on, you know, if they are flying you and request that first class ticket, and request that you bring up your partner or a friend if you want or see what they’ll do. And maybe if they can’t, but everyone can fly you in a friend first class around the world, but they might be able to get in business class, they might be able to get you an extension on your hotel room, or whatever it is really make it so that the experience is something that you can immerse in flying in 10,000 miles away for a 48 hour gig and an out sucks, that actually takes all the fun out of it. So don’t do that also. But yeah, I think to me, some people might have more of a structure about it. To me, it’s all in my heart. You know, if I hear that, someone I know is getting paid at to speak at this gig, I’ll be really transparent with you. It’s my goal to make as much as they’re making or more. And if I know for a fact that this is a nonprofit, helping indigenous communities like I work the New Zealand, I mean, come on, I really charge them what I would normally charge a corporate in America. No, absolutely not. So that that sounds now that’s everyone else’s choice.

Tim McDonald 21:38
Well, one final question I have for you is, if you were to take what you know now, and go back to when you first started speaking, what piece of advice would you give yourself that you would do differently?

Savannah Peterson 21:53
I would have documented more. You’re in the moment, and you’re excited, and you spent all this time on a deck. And I really wish I had a short blog post that went along with each one of my decks. And each one of my videos, I have this for maybe five or 10 of my talks. And my talks are pretty I mean, my youtube channel is pretty robust, I did a good job of making sure I was able to share most of my video, but your SEO and the way that you’ll index as a speaker, like I just started showing up you Google San Francisco millennial speaker, they’ll start to find me now. And I think he really could have found me five years ago, if I had, if I had started investing in that. And and it’s awesome how you’ll index I mean, even when it’s if it’s re embedding a YouTube video that you plan on sharing with folks, even if it doesn’t have a lot of views, nobody cares about any of that, just to be clear vanity metrics on your speech, nobody cares. You’re a good speaker. That’s what they’re looking for. It’s for all I know, that was private or gatewayed, or something along those lines. So I would have, I would have completed the circle. So when I think about each event, I’m trying to make an impression in person trying to make an impression online, and then I’m trying to create something that’s evergreen to add value in the future. And I could still do better with that right now. So if you’re in a position where you haven’t spoken a lot, might I actually say you have a very unique opportunity to properly index and maybe even get those talks transcribed. It’s really cheap now it’s like three bucks, five bucks, and you can have that transcribed and guess what each one of those senses does, it boosts your SEO as someone who talks about that particular thing. So now pay attention to the way that the internet finds you.

Tim McDonald 23:43
Thank you so much Savannah for sharing all this with us. So let people know how they can find you and learn more about you.

Savannah Peterson 23:52
Oh, thank you all for joining and to you Tim and most importantly for having me This is always such a pleasure. My name is Savannah Peterson you can find me at SavannahPeterson.com/speaking to learn about speaking in particular SavannahPeterson.com/testimonials if you want to get some good ideas for how to structure your testimonials. You can also check out all my talks on my YouTube channel youtube.com/savvymillennial I am savissavvy on all of the other platforms like Twitter and Instagram and if you’re curious about the business end of all this and go to savvymillennial.com Last but not least, you’re feeling like the year is getting you down. Tim is a proud VIP member of my latest community and endeavor, the WTF club, just go to theWTF.club and learn more on that little ditty. And thanks again.

Tim McDonald 24:40
Thank you Savannah and for everybody just watching if you are here for the first time, you might not be aware that we are going to end the youtube broadcast. However, I have a special surprise if you go over to speaking.business and sign up for our email. email list, we send out a weekly email. And there we have exclusive content because what’s going to happen as soon as we end the youtube broadcast is I’m going to stay on with Savannah and ask her one additional question and that information will only be available to our email subscribers. So we hope you sign up and we look forward to seeing you on the email side of things right now.

Savannah Peterson 25:24
Whoo.

Ever since LA Law captured Naphtali Hoff’s attention, he thought he wanted to become a lawyer. His studies in faith brought him to teaching and then into school administration. Both of these were opportunities to engage with an audience. As Naphtali says, “If you cannot effectively entertain and engage students, you do not have an effective classroom.”

The more Naphtali Hoff spoke to audiences he began to see the opportunity to open his own business. Since this was a major pivot, he had to focus on demonstrating an ability to share ideas and become better known on the topics he wanted to speak, coach and consult on. This brought him to create a website, social media accounts and begin deliver this focus.

What other lessons did Naphtali Hoff share? 

• Look for the “built in” speaking opportunities around you
• You can be an introvert and reticent and still be a public speaker
• The more prepared you are, the more impact you can have
• How you prepare can be the difference between energizing you on the stage or draining you
• Test the waters with your message before quitting everything to speak
• You never know who’s going to serve as a referral for you
• What is the major motivator to get people to say ‘Yes’ to you

If you have trouble viewing the video, check it out on YouTube. Be sure to subscribe to our YouTube Channel and get notified when new shows are added. 

Who is Naphtali Hoff, PsyD?

You can with Naphtali Hoff, PsyD. on LinkedIn, Twitter,  Facebook, and Instagram , and of course on his website, ImpactfulCoaching.com where can you get ebooks, his podcast and read his blog.

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Below is the full transcript from the show with Naphtali Hoff. Please note that there may be some errors as it was auto transcribed using Otter.ai. (referral link that provides us with a 1-month Premium Pass

Tim McDonald
Well, welcome everybody to the business of speaking show. I am your host, Tim McDonald and today I am joined by Naphtali Hoff How are you doing?

Naphtali Hoff
I’m doing great, Tim, thank you so much for having me.

Tim McDonald
Yeah, no, I’m so glad you’re here. And for those maybe just watching for the first time there. Business is speaking show isn’t really sharing the stories of what the speaker share on the stage. But it’s really talking about their journey on how they got to the stage and what they learned since they’ve been on the stage. And if you are thinking about getting involved in speaking, or just starting speaking, this information should be so valuable for you. That’s who our target audience is. But as 2020 has taught us, no matter how seasoned we are, no matter what we think we know, we don’t know everything, and we can’t plan for everything. That being said, I think anybody that’s in the speaking world can find value from anybody that’s on the show. So with that being said, let’s talk about, you know, kind of what you’re doing now and what your business looks like, you know, who you work with, I can share what I know, but I always find it more valuable to come directly from you.

Naphtali Hoff
Absolutely. So first of all, again, Tim, it’s a great, it’s great to be with you on the on the show in the podcast. To have this conversation, I would say from a sort of a backdrop, and then I’ll pivot to the moment. My background is that of education and others, I was a classroom teacher, school leader, before moving into my current role as coach and trainer slash speaker. So it actually lent itself to speaking on a regular basis, because if you cannot effectively entertain and engage students, you do not have an effective classroom, as you know. And once I moved into school leadership, there were tons of opportunities to speak. Many of them were not solicited by me, but they were just part and parcel of the job. So it was like talking at lifecycle events, especially at the bar bar mitzvah types, or graduation. Or speaking at parlour meetings and talking to donors, there were so many different built in opportunities for public speaking for opportunity to engage from the stage, and to have my my message shared. And and now, I use speaking as another way by which to impact you know, I’m really very mindful about the impact that I have. It’s not the only way in which I try to be impactful. It’s through my coaching, it’s through consulting work is through my writing. So there’s a lot of different ways to do it. But one of the things if not the biggest thing, despite the fact that I identify as an introvert, and many people often think that that is not the kind of profile that lends itself to speaking, when I get up to the stage that lights me up, it may drain me simultaneously, but it lights me up, it gives me an opportunity to really see transformation occurring in the eyes of people in the moment. And since you talked about 2020, in our current reality, now I’m doing it more on platforms like this one, you know, doing zoom calls and other ways by which to talk to people, people are more used to it now. So they they’re more willing, on some level to receive it this way, though, some people are, as they say, zoomed out, and they would love that interpersonal peace. And so actually this coming Monday, we’re recording this on a Friday. So this coming Monday, I’m going to be speaking at my first, well I shouldn’t say my first, at a one of the more recent live events, this one for people in the nursing home industry, long term care, outdoor event, but creating an opportunity for them to gain credits that they need for, for their industry in the same time to talk about empowering people. In 2020, what does that look like? You know, we live in a different environment. And so that’s kind of where I am today.

Tim McDonald
No, I love that. And, you know, before we go all the way back I you said something that I think so many Can I know I can relate to and I think other people can relate to is this fact of, you know, you getting energized by getting up on the stage, but at the same time it drains you can you go a little bit deeper into, you know, what that feeling is for you before you get on the stage, and how it works, you know, to help, you know, to help you get through that. And yeah, and maybe decompress after you’re off the stage.

Naphtali Hoff
So I’ll actually take it a step back, if I may. And that is, you know, I think in order for me personally to be very successful, I can live in the moment and they often do. I’ve got a repertoire of stories, a repertoire of sayings and quotes and things like that, a personal anecdotes that allow me to to live in the moment as I sense the crowd, but simultaneously I like to come in like really prepared because the more prepared. I don’t want to be scripted. I don’t want to be canned, but I do want to be prepared. So for example, with this audience that I just referenced, I’ve reached out to people I know in the industry and I asked them the question, what should I be focusing on or what do administrators of individual facilities need? They’ve got owner operators operating out of some corporate office. They’re dealing with their people boots on the ground in their facility, hundreds of people. What are their challenges, both In terms of leading up, leading across, leaving down, and then and in the context of the pandemic, which of course complicates things that much more. So when I come in to my conversations, Tim, I’m trying to demonstrate a connection with the people I’m talking to. And that makes it much easier for me to convey my message. Now, that all said, as an introvert, you know, we oftentimes associate extraversion as people who are outgoing, sociable, you know, they, they just love a crowd, because of the fact that they interact well with people. Whereas introverts are shy and reticent, and, and don’t. And so when I get up on the stage, and I’m dynamic, and I certainly try to be and I genuinely AM. And people say to me, and I am make a comment about introversion, especially when I’m talking to educators, or talking to people who really have to be mindful of the people that they interact with from a engagement standpoint. And I tell them that I’m an introvert, many of them have this quizzical look. And they say, Well, what does that mean? Because you don’t strike me as being shy. You don’t strike me as being reticent, you don’t strike me as being somebody who’s uncomfortable in a public space, I own the space when I get up there. So I tell them that it’s not about how sociable I can be, it’s about whether or not this experience is energizing me, or if it’s draining my battery. So it’s really more on the back end of the process. Tim, it’s not so much during the actual experience. But when I’m done, I may instead of running around the room, I may choose to sit down, or I may choose to kind of like regroup more. So I still want to take advantage of the moment, if it’s a social or networking opportunity, I don’t want to lose it. But I’m doing it, you know, on a half charged battery rather than a turbocharged battery. And it’s just a matter of knowing oneself knowing how you operate in that space, what what best works for you. And then you can make adjustments as needed. So that, to me, it’s all about showing up in the best way at the most important moment. So what is that moment? And the moment of course, is the talk in this in this context. So how do I show up for that? You know, with the very best moment that I’m not thinking about the massive crowd, I’m not thinking about all the things that typically get people nervous, I’m thinking about my message, I’m thinking about making an impact and think about making eye contact with a few people that sort of ground me in the moment in my conversation. And then I’m and then I’m focused on delivering a clear, properly laid out message that has all sorts of nuggets and stories and anecdotes and takeaways that people feel really good about. And then I let the chips fall where they may on the back end about my own, for lack of a better term, let’s call it recovery, you know, a regrouping, it’s not a big deal. You know, I don’t want to overplay this. But it is something that, you know, we have to be mindful of as speakers. What is it that charges you? How do you make sure that you’re showing up in the best way at the right time? And then you figure out the rest of it kind of around? around that process? That’s been my, my experience.

Tim McDonald
Yeah. So, you know, looking back to when you got an education before you got into education? Did you know you wanted to become an educator?

Naphtali Hoff
No, I thought I would become a lawyer. I actually, at that time, I’m dating myself just a little bit, there was a show called LA Law, which was very compelling. I kind of spoke to me the idea of engaging in argument, but but with with purpose, you know, the idea of litigation that spoke to me, and I thought that that could be a lifestyle for me, for a variety of personal and maybe communal reasons, I moved more into let’s call it focusing on my studies, being more connected with my with my faith. And there’s a lot of academic rigor associated with that, which is not necessarily true with every faith. But certainly, within Orthodox Judaism, there’s a lot of emphasis on becoming, let’s call it scholarly on some level, or at least having a lot of foundational learning since there’s so many commandments, obligations, and let’s call a practices associated with the faith, it’s difficult to do it in an informational vacuum. So that kind of moved me in a direction of learning, and engaging in of teaching. And when I got my hands on it, so to speak, and I had opportunity to do it. It really was something where I felt meaning and purpose and all of that. And so that became a career choice. And I still feel myself first and foremost as an educator and everything I do, and I look at it, and I say, I’m not here to entertain you. I’m here to deliver something concrete and useful for you that will transform the way you think about things. And I want to make sure I’m also mindful of the host of an event did they get in bringing me in the level of engagement, the level of advancement, if you will, for their audience that they intended? And if the answer is yes, to me, that is the primary the primary takeaway, and that’s my focus.

Tim McDonald
Yeah. And so as you were in education, I know when you you know, right at the beginning, you were sure hearing how that kind of was a natural thing of feeling comfortable getting up in front of people. Yeah, at what point did you make the transition from being in education to really focus on, you know, your business and speaking.

Naphtali Hoff
So it was it was, I guess, the transition from my head of school position to my current work. So I had been delivering trainings in advance, you know, in advance of that period, as I told you, I had numerous opportunities to speak and whatnot. But it was always peripheral to my core work, you know, a core work was teaching classroom, running a school, being a professor, whatever those responsibilities were, it was all about the students in my little orbit that I was focused on. Once I became open for business hang hung my shingle to the world, that’s obviously a much different focus. And at that point, you know, whether its use of social media, which I had done, almost none of prior to that, in fact, I had no accounts whatsoever, until I knew that I was going to be pivoting, I had no website, I had no real public presence outside of the little world, again, which I was operating, I needed to change all of that. And I needed to be able to demonstrate an ability to share ideas and become better known, so that people who are looking for what I feel is a dynamic speaker with a clear message, especially about leadership, and coaching and self improvement, and these kinds of things, productivity, now that they have an address to turn to that they feel will deliver the kind of message. So that that was really the time where that became a conscious focus. And it’s not the only thing that I do, as I mentioned before, so I have to find a way by which to put it out there, and at the same time, demonstrate other capacities as well.

Tim McDonald
So um, you know, because I know so many people are just like, No, I’m going to quit my job and, you know, start speaking, right. And it sounds like you almost did that. But I’m just kind of curious, was it that simple? Or did you start developing some clients and everything before you quit your, quote, unquote, day job?

Naphtali Hoff
The answer is, yes. And no, I’ll put it this way, if I would have had, you know, like, I talked about in my book about the idea of the critical nature of experience. And, and obviously, as Brian Tracy talks about, he calls it a quick analysis, right, knowing what I now know. So using a quick analysis, if I, if I knew, at the time that I was transitioning out of school leadership, what I would ultimately become and have a clear sense of what that would look like I would have been, I would have been seeding that and developing more of a foundation in the years leading up to it to make that transition more seamless. Sometimes you don’t necessarily have full luxury of doing that for a variety of reasons. And so you kind of hang your shingle and get started, I did have a couple of anchors in what I was looking to do, which allowed me to make that pivot. But I also knew that I would need to build other parts of my business quickly and in a more robust way if I was going to make this work. And thankfully, I’ve been able to do that, you know, we’re always looking to grow, but, but I’ve been able to round out my portfolio involving speaking and other and other ways by which I engage with my clients, in order to do what I what I love to do. So the answer is, I wish I would have done more. But I did some. And I think that anyone who is looking to, quote, drop everything and become a coach, drop everything become a speaker, should really, in my estimation, be testing the waters in advance finding out? Is my message, something that that is resonating with people? How do I get in front of as many audiences as possible without directly conflicting with the work that I’m presently doing? And how do I build enough of a foundation so that if I ever choose to really jump into this full throttle, I have something to rely on as opposed to trying to make it work afterwards, because that’s much more difficult. And even in today’s environment, speaking in general is a much harder gig to engage in because again, we don’t have the platforms, we don’t have the the social events, we don’t have the conferences in the conventions that typically bring speakers as a critical piece in what they do. So you need to be more resourceful and you need to cast a wider net, I would imagine today than ever before, in order to ensure that you have a sufficiently full pipeline.

Tim McDonald
So, you know, one question that I see from so many people thinking about getting involved in speaking, and I’m just curious if you experienced this when you you know, put your, you know, hung your shingle out is how do you know who to get in touch with to hire you?

Naphtali Hoff
Yeah, it’s really a good question. And I think that I mean, let’s put it this way, you can get in touch with a bunch of people, but those people won’t necessarily certainly reciprocate. If they don’t feel that you bring enough to the table. So oftentimes, if you’re talking about agents or agencies, you know, individuals who are going to help you get in front of the right audiences, unless they feel that you have a platform that you have built. That’s through your social media, your email lists, other things that you do to build a network, maybe publications and the things you have out there. For the most part, they’re going to ignore you. Because there are so many people putting themselves in front of you, they don’t need that many speakers in order to fill events. So they’re going to go with the people that they think are going to help them sell, really draw in potential business and that type of thing. So it is important to get in front, I think of a lot of people, people, you can demonstrate your capacity you never know, who knows someone you never know who’s going to serve as a referral for you, you never know who’s going to make that connection for you. And be willing to speak early. And often, you know, Zig Ziglar talks about it, or talked about a Brian Tracy, I mentioned already, many others as well, we have to be willing to get in front of people. And you know, if you’re if you’re a person of, you know, let’s say even mild success over the years, if you want to move into this space, oftentimes it could feel like a step down or five steps down to quote, humble yourself in order to get in front of those audiences. On the other hand, if you if you keep sight of the bigger picture, if you recognize you’ve got to go down in order to get up. And you also recognize that, you know, impacting somebody, even in a small Rotary Club event, or business commerce gathering or some other social gathering, it may not seem like much right now. But if you’re making an impact here, and you can collect video of your talks, and collect testimonials, as you go and broadcast them out there, put them up on your website, have a YouTube channel fine, have people people need to find have ways to find you, right, you have to put it out there, but they also are going to research you and they’re gonna want to see what can you do. And the more that people can find your material and do their own research. That’s just what people do nowadays, they go on Google, they go on searches, they look for you, they look for your stuff, they look for what people are saying about you. And that’s a lot of it as well. So the more that you can give people opportunity to feel comfortable, that they could trust you that they know that you’re going to deliver, that usually will be a major determinant. And motivator for people to say yes to you.

Tim McDonald
Well, that was fantastic. And I know we’re getting short on time. So before we kind of and tell everybody how they can learn more about you find you.

Naphtali Hoff
Thank you. Yeah, I appreciate it, Tim. First of all, you can always go to my website, there’s a chock full of goodies over there, including ebooks, my own podcast, my blog, and other stuff. It’s impactfulcoaching.com. That’s all one word, impactful, ful, coaching.com, you can find me on LinkedIn, very active over there, Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. And you could also take a, take a look at the reference the book before there’s a lot of my I don’t know if I’d say my wisdom, but at least my experiences wisdom I got from maybe bad decisions that ultimately became better decisions. Learning. This is specifically targeted for new leaders for people who are just starting out who want to shorten their experience curve so that they can hit the ground running, and enjoy sustained success.

Tim McDonald
Well, thank you so much. And we want to thank everybody for watching it. Again, if you haven’t gotten to this part of the show before, this is where we kind of sign off of YouTube. But before we go, what I’d love to do is invite you to go over to speaking.business and sign up for our weekly email list. Why should you do that? You’re asking yourself well, because I am going to stay on and ask one additional question. And those questions only get shared with our exclusively with our email list. So if you head over to speaking dot business and sign up for that, you will have access to this exclusive content. So thank you for joining us today.

Eileen Lichtenstein went from owning a dance studio to becoming an educator and then evolved it into a speaking business. She saw how important her work was in educating students and working with clients. This especially became evident right after 9-11. 

As an educator, Eileen Lichtenstein knew the importance of knowing her material. Knowing more than she needed to know to be able to present the information with confidence. As she began speaking, she realized that it just wasn’t the material you knew but also that putting yourself in the right frame of mind and body could be really helpful as well. She began practicing breathing and relaxation before getting in front of a group of people. This allowed her to make an impact and do the important work with her speaking business. 

What other lessons did Eileen Lichtenstein share? 

• Resilience it about being flexible
• Humor is very important when delivering valuable information
• You make a difference one person at a time
• Never underestimate the value of a business coach, and a decent webmaster, you can trust
• Listen to your intuition – it’s usually correct

If you have trouble viewing the video, check it out on YouTube. Be sure to subscribe to our YouTube Channel and get notified when new shows are added. 

Who is Eileen Lichtenstein?

You can with Eileen Lichtenstein on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter and Pinterest, and of course on her blog andwebsite Balance & Power, Inc.

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Below is the full transcript from the show with Eileen Lichtenstein. Please note that there may be some errors as it was auto transcribed using Otter.ai. (referral link that provides us with a 1-month Premium Pass

Tim McDonald 0:01
All right. Well welcome everybody to the business of speaking show. I am your host, Tim McDonald. And today I am joined by somebody I just recently met through a networking group that obviously we’re doing in 2020: virtually. Eileen, how are you doing?

Eileen Lichtenstein 0:18
Great. Thanks so much, Tim, for having me on your show.

Tim McDonald 0:22
No, it’s wonderful to have you and I can’t wait to dive into more your story. And to let everybody know who’s watching. This is really a show for people that are interested in getting involved in speaking, or in the very early stages of their speaking career. Although as 2020 and COVID has taught us, no matter what we thought we had planned out and knew the world can always throw us a curveball. So regardless of where you are on the journey, I would not say don’t listen. But it’s really geared towards those who are just starting. And I’m thinking about getting started in speaking. So with that being said, I would love to jump in. Because we don’t really focused on the story of what you talk about onstage, we talk about the the journey to the stage and how you kind of evolve from there. But I mean, what I’d really like to start with before we kind of dive into that is tell us a little bit about what you do now what what you know, what your accomplishments have been, um, so that then we can go back to where the early days of where you started.

Eileen Lichtenstein 1:26
I’ll be happy to Tim. So let me hold up my workbooks slash success stories and strategies. And these words are so key words now with the pandemic and everything. And I wrote this about 10 years ago. And it’s still an again, more relevant than ever. So resilience is more than bouncing back. It’s about being flexible in spirit, and emotionally flexible in your prioritizing whatever you make, we may do. It’s about being flexible. So succeed, overcome obstacles, achieve your goals and reduce stress and anger. I am a certified anger management specialist now. And that is a benefit that has been a journey to become that and I’m also an EFT, tapping Emotional Freedom Technique tapping practitioner, and I teach that as well with clients.

Tim McDonald 2:40
Wow, I haven’t even heard of that before. Now I explained it. I don’t know exactly. But you kind of gave me the hint that it’s like

Eileen Lichtenstein 2:51
what it does, if I made is, I hear the client’s story as a coach with active listening. And then I kind of plug it in to talking about their their story while we tap on certain acupuncture points. That releases lets go of cortisol in a very negative hormone. I’m bringing to positive hormone up to the section of the brain that deals with feelings. I’ve had miraculous successes with clients and for myself as well.

Tim McDonald 3:33
Well, I think you and I might have a whole new conversation to talk about, but let’s not focus on that today. But I love I love that and it sounds so fascinating to me, and I’m curious to learn more about it. But um, you know, so, you know, having the book, you know, becoming the, you know, certified in, you know, anger management therapy. I’m getting a chance to speak with people to, you know, get out in front of people. How did you start in all this?

Eileen Lichtenstein 4:02
Well, I was, um, I have always been an educator and my adult education and educating experience was with adult students at Hofstra University in Long Island and also Medgar Evers college, part of the CUNY system. And for mega Labradors, I was in the business department teaching soft skills, and they would send me out to teach it to employees of city agencies. And when you’re speaking to a roomful of adults to work for a city agency that is a really good base to start a speaking career from

Tim McDonald 4:57
what you bring up something pretty Interesting, which is getting up in front of a room of adult students. Right? And I know most people don’t think of that as speaking. But do you remember the first day you were in class?

Eileen Lichtenstein 5:13
What do you mean, as a student?

Tim McDonald 5:15
No, like, as a teacher of these,

Eileen Lichtenstein 5:18
I was so nervous, always the first day of class, because I remember actually, when I was in college, a long time ago, and master’s degree, and it was always and we were all the students for always judging the professor, the new teacher, I had to make the grade kind of thing. So anything that that anyone is a bit fearful about, let me just interject here that tapping can get rid of.

Tim McDonald 6:03
I’ve done a lot of research and talk about fear. So I’m fully aware that so how did you you know, but back then you probably weren’t doing that. Right. So how did you? How did you deal with that? And how did you kind of, you know, what did? What were the feelings that you were going through? And how did you process that? To gain your confidence while you were in that situation?

Eileen Lichtenstein 6:23
Yes, um, I had to be so fully prepared, overly prepared with the material, that no matter what question would come up, or if I had the wrong overhead, in my hand for what I was saying, or whatever could possibly happen. I would be okay with it. Because I knew my material inside and out. That was the main thing for me.

Tim McDonald 6:53
Well, that I think that’s very helpful. And, and I think that, you know, one thing that I, you know, I’ve found is the same thing, it’s like, when you’re talking about something that, you know, it’s a lot easier than getting up and talking about something you know, nothing about?

Eileen Lichtenstein 7:10
Oh, yes. And also, I have learned early on that relaxation, breathing before, going in front of the group, just putting yourself in the right frame of mind and body could be really helpful as well. So I was always doing that before.

Tim McDonald 7:29
Well, that’s great. And, you know, so you mentioned that being in front of these students that the college would actually send you out in front of some of the city agencies and work with their people. Um, was it a different feeling for you? When you took yourself out of the classroom, even though you were nervous when you first started a new class? Because this is like every agency that you got in front of was a new group, right? And so yes, how did you deal with that?

Eileen Lichtenstein 7:56
Well, as I just said, just being totally prepared and and being sure that I did some relaxation for myself before I was in front of the group kind of backstage so to speak, you know, behind the scenes, I knew that that would help me no matter what I I messed up with possibly.

Tim McDonald 8:21
Um, so you know, you working for the college, you’re getting an opportunity to not only be in the classroom, but also in front of these city agencies. Tell us about like how your path kind of evolved from there to you know, and I’d love to just sit and listen.

Eileen Lichtenstein 8:40
Okay, so I was at Hofstra also teaching. I was in the health and phys ed department there. And I was teaching stress management from that department, not the not the School of Psychology class but from the health and phys ed class. And the students were so dressed all the time. That almost whatever I said they were all ears show they love the subject. Also I taught yoga there and I was kind of on the floor in the in the gym. I at the time, I had a certification and fitness, and very way back, I owned a dance and exercise studio.

Tim McDonald 9:33
Wow.

Eileen Lichtenstein 9:36
All all of this kind of came together at Hofstra in the health and phys ed department. So I was with students during it teaching yoga. Yeah, I was at Hofstra. My last semester, there was the semester that 911 occurred. And I saw miracles on the mat. in teaching yoga. This the students who attended as, as you may imagine, were so stressed out, and some of them actually had, you know, people in their family and friends that were very affected, that were personally affected. So I was really providing a service that they needed. Even though I wasn’t speaking that much, I was giving guided meditations and, and teaching yoga poses in a yoga class. But oh, my goodness, it was I felt so important. I was doing such important work for the students. And that helped to build my confidence in the field.

Tim McDonald 11:16
Was it the impact that you saw you had on the students that gave you that confidence?

Eileen Lichtenstein 11:22
Yes.

Tim McDonald 11:25
And and how did that make you feel? I mean, how I mean, because I can only imagine I didn’t live in New York at the time. But having lived there and talking with people that I was friends with, I know, you know, no matter where we are in the US, I think it affected us all, but living in the New York City area, it was unlike anything that you can imagine.

Eileen Lichtenstein 11:45
Yes, it was, and anyone who attended the school who actually got their bodies there who had been affected. It was amazing to me that they were even in class, but somehow they got there. So I made it worth their while. And I felt very, um, like I said, contributor to their well being.

Tim McDonald 12:12
And so, yeah, I’m guessing that, you know, it’s, it sounds like, it wasn’t something that you consciously planned out to do. It was just something that you reacted to knowing that it was kind of the right thing. Yes, exactly. And how did that? How did that kind of move you to, you know, getting out on your own and not working for the university?

Eileen Lichtenstein 12:37
Well, that kind of evolved, because, um, to do internal changes in the university, I was down to teaching one course, and I decided I wasn’t going to take my time of the week to do that. So I’ve got a different kind of position at that time.

Tim McDonald 13:00
And so how did that kind of mean, so it was a, it was kind of a choice of yours, but it wasn’t fully what you necessarily would have chosen If it was up to you.

Eileen Lichtenstein 13:09
That’s right. That’s right. And while I was still there, I created a graduate course in that department, I, all my students were either in that course where phys ed majors, or they were going for physical therapy.

Tim McDonald 13:27
So it’s something that you are passionate about that you were you were able to help them and get them out in the world doing what you love doing.

Eileen Lichtenstein 13:34
I felt I was doing very important work that they were, they knew it was a required course for these majors. And, and we were really working together to to give them a good experience, myself and the students when I when I’m saying we

Tim McDonald 13:56
now when you still talk with people, and you, you know, you’re getting in front of people, do you still have that presence of we? Or do you ever feel like it’s you talking to several or many, you know,

Eileen Lichtenstein 14:09
it just depends, okay, it depends on the group. It depends on the venue these days, it’s all online with the pandemic. So that’s very different from me, a different kind of feeling than talking to a group where I can feel the energy in the room and see their expressions and so on. And way, way back, when I started with the speaking, I gave some trainings at the for the New York Times, in an open, like open a group for employees in the auditorium. I’m just thinking back I haven’t thought about that in a long time. That was really amazing. Amazing, just being there with all these employees of the New York Times, and then following that, because it went so well, I was hired by their sales department to give a training. And it was all about it was it was almost the same thing I’m doing now is like less stress for greater productivity and focus.

Tim McDonald 15:28
So is that one of your first major, you know, speaking things? Was it then your times? Yeah. And how did that come about? For you?

Eileen Lichtenstein 15:35
How did that happen? I’m, I’m not sure. I think I sent out a lot of cover letters, talking about my college experiences, kind of a resume, you know, but in in paragraphs that a list and they picked it up the I sent back to human resources to EAP, which is employees assistant programs, I sent to quite a few big businesses in the metro New York metropolitan area.

Tim McDonald 16:15
And so how many do you think you sent it to before you had the New York Times? Say, we want you Eileen?

Unknown Speaker 16:21
I really don’t know. But it seemed like I was always working at it.

Tim McDonald 16:27
So it wasn’t the first one you said?

Eileen Lichtenstein 16:33
Wait, let me just say, there are two key words here. persistence and perseverance for anyone who’s starting on a new endeavor, whether it be speaking or or starting a new business, or being a new employee and another business, whatever it is, it often takes incredible persistence and perseverance to get through those beginning times.

Tim McDonald 17:06
I think that’s so wise for and I love that you phrased it for anybody, not just people looking to get into speaking. But so after you got that one, and you said you got other ones from other people, or even within the same company? How did that kind of grow? And how did you? Did you continue having to send those out? Was it all referral? What did you Was there anything that you were doing or finding that work for you, that really helped you continue to get more of these bookings, to get you know, in front of people and get paid to speak

Eileen Lichtenstein 17:44
early on, I had a business coach. And she and I became good professional, colleagues, friends. And we, she and I had an online business at the beginning of online businesses that no longer exist, and none of them want to sit in the middle of it. And she and I created an amazingly fantastic radio shop, on blog talk radio, which was extremely popular them. And she had a fantastic webmaster at the beginning of all that. And I hired him. He’s still my webmaster Now, over 10 years.

Tim McDonald 18:35
And so that relationship and that experience, what did that kind of teach you? And how did you see it help your business?

Eileen Lichtenstein 18:45
Well, I, it helped me to understand that anyone listening, who was really listening, whether it be the students, or the New York Times, participants, are the people listening to our radio show, if they were truly listening, then it was important for me and whomever I was doing it with, to give really important well thought out information and, and have a great sense of humor. Very, very important.

Tim McDonald 19:21
Well, I remember talking to somebody and you’re, you’re reminding me of this, it’s he said, he was a little hesitant about posting even just on LinkedIn, that’s the only social network he was on. And he goes, Well, what if nobody reads it? And I said, Do you know that there’s 1% of the people that truly helped contribute to what you put out there? There’s 9% that might engage with you like like it, you know, give you a comment. And then there’s 90% that will just see it, and never even tell you. And imagine if you made a difference in one person’s life with what you shared.

Eileen Lichtenstein 19:54
That’s how I’ve always felt one person at a time making a difference. I felt that As a college professor, and when I was began the speaking engagements and on the radio show, which was all part of that time.

Tim McDonald 20:11
Wow. And so, as the internet evolved, and as you know, social media evolved, you know, I’m sure you weren’t having to actually send or, you know, I’m not sure how you were sending them, we didn’t even talk about that, whether it was, you know, running them over or faxing them over, because that was one of my first jobs selling fax machines, when nobody wanted them, because they couldn’t afford them or didn’t think they were worth anything. And now, you know, it would be the same challenge today trying to sell. But you know, how is how is that kind of all evolved from you, you know, for you? And how is how have you seen it kind of help your business? Or has it been in that way?

Eileen Lichtenstein 20:51
Yes, thank you, it’s been extremely helpful to my business, for Google to have me on their first page on several topics. And sometimes now, people simply look up, um, for instance, anger management specialist, Nassau County, and there I am. And my website has been upgraded as needed. Same with webmasters I mentioned, and he does a fantastic job with the search engine optimization. And yes, I’m on some social media, not everything. And I like it. I like what the social media that a month.

Tim McDonald 21:41
And I’m guessing that you, the minute you put up your website, you probably weren’t on page one of Google for all these things. Which brings us back to those two keys. Right.

Eileen Lichtenstein 21:52
Exactly. Exactly. And also facing my webmaster making the right choices.

Tim McDonald 22:02
Well, you bring up something interesting, you know, which is another thing that I think, you know, a lot of people getting started is they see successful people that are, you know, doing speaking as part of their business. And, you know, you bring up that you have somebody on your team, that’s a webmaster right. And other people might have PR, you know, or VA as virtual assistants. You know, so, you know, when did you know and realize that you needed to hire somebody else? And how comfortable do you feel when you bring somebody in and release a little bit of control to them?

Eileen Lichtenstein 22:37
Well, um, as I think I mentioned, I, I had a really good recommendation for this person, because I was in venues with this other woman that he was a webmaster for. So I had kind of a preview, so to speak, of his of his work and her recommendations. So that was a good start for me,

Tim McDonald 23:05
and how did you know that it was time for you to make that hire?

Eileen Lichtenstein 23:10
Because she was also my business coach. And I I agree that it couldn’t be the time and if it wasn’t, then, you know, I could stop doing some things.

Tim McDonald 23:25
I, you know, it’s it’s one of my more recent guest, you know, Dr. G, Dr. G. She brought up that she went to art school for theater, and inner undergrad, and then worked in that field for six years, and then became went to medical school and became a doctor. And she told me something pretty interesting that when you’re in art school, they always tell you, it’s about the art, never about business. And when you’re in medical school, they tell you, it’s always about the science and never about the business. It sounds like you made the decision to get hooked up with a business coach, early on when you started.

Eileen Lichtenstein 24:04
Yes. And when I went through my coaching life, life and career coaching training, it was always recommended to do that. So it wasn’t simply an original idea to do that. You know, part of my coursework said it’s really good to have a business coach.

Tim McDonald 24:32
Well, I think that’s so important because, you know, people see speakers and they don’t realize that there’s these other people that are either be working behind the scenes for those speakers, or have been with them for some part of their journey to the stage.

Eileen Lichtenstein 24:47
And then later in my career, I coach clients to do public speaking. It was it wasn’t like officially what I did, but they were friends. Since a life coaching client and or a career coaching client, and would say, Oh my goodness, I’m, I have to give this presentation in a week and I’m so nervous and I don’t know what to do. And I would help them to do it not by being there physically. But with that I had just learned about that tapping, and it totally helps overcome fear of public speaking.

Tim McDonald 25:31
Oh, that’s great. And so, as we kind of wrap up, um, if you were to go back not to when you were in the, you know, teaching in the schools, but once you started your own business, knowing what you know, now, what is the one piece of advice that you would give yourself that you know, now that you didn’t know that?

Eileen Lichtenstein 25:53
Well, I think I know it because that maybe because I’m older and wiser is listen to your intuition, because it’s usually correct.

Tim McDonald 26:08
I love it. Well, thank you so much. I lean in and tell people how they can get in touch with you and find more about you.

Eileen Lichtenstein 26:18
Yes, my website is balanced VA Li n C, E, and n d power, pow er.com. And my phone number 516-623-4353. That is a landline. So please don’t be shy and leave me a message. And of course, you could go you could fill out a contact form on my website that way. And I hope to be Tuesday soon. Anyway,hey listeners I’m talking to now.

Tim McDonald 26:55
Well, thank you so much, Eileen. And thank everybody for joining us. And I forgot to tell Eileen this before we went on air. But one thing that I love doing is ending the YouTube broadcast. But keeping Eileen on for a few more minutes. And I’m going to ask her one additional question. And that content will only be available to our email subscribers. So if you head over to speaking dot business, and just sign up for our free weekly email newsletter, you will get on the exclusive content that we record after we stopped the YouTube broadcast. So thank you.

 

• You never know who’s life you are going to change when you share your story
• You don’t know what you don’t know 
• There are 64,000 events in North America every day
• The speaking business used to be a shark eat shark industry – today there are coaches and mentors that can cut your learning by 1/2 or 2/3 
• A speaking business is a business – it takes a lot of work and patience
• Never give up – No matter what state stay the course

If you have trouble viewing the video, check it out on YouTube. Be sure to subscribe to our YouTube Channel and get notified when new shows are added. 

Who is Orly Amor?

Business Coach for Public Speakers and Entrepreneurs, Public Speaker, Networking Expert, and Bestselling Author

Orly is a successful entrepreneur who has started five companies. As a corporate trainer, bestselling author, and international public speaker she has helped over 200,000 entrepreneurs around the world maximize their bottom line by tripling and
quadrupling their sales.

Orly Amor always enjoyed speaking and helping people change their lives and impact their
circle of influence wherever they go. She was in Property Management for 25 years where she
quickly established herself as a Subject Matter Expert; publishing two books on the subject and
speaking on numerous occasions, but she did not feel that she was having an impact.

In 2006, Orly was asked to speak at a women’s shelter on her life experiences and originally declined the invitation. After being invited several times she finally relented and agreed to speak. It was there she met a woman who wanted to end her life. After hearing Orly speak the woman decided to live and asked Orly to support her. This was the impact Orly was looking for.

Since then, Orly dedicated her life to impacting the lives of 200,000,000 people by helping them
realize their own mission-based goals and dreams. Her extensive experience as a Certified
Behavioral Analyst has made her indispensable as a coach to many influential corporate leaders.

Orly speaks three languages fluently and has earned her MBA and Law Degree. Despite the
impressive education and success as a business woman, Orly remains remarkably humble, authentic and a very engaging speaker.

In addition to being a great public speaker herself, and a great networker for the past ten years, she has helped Public Speakers and Entrepreneurs create their Business Model for Public Speaking. Her gift is to show them how to monetize their craft by taking it seriously and having what she calls “Business in A Box for Public Speakers.” Thereby teaching them how to fish.

Orly recently Published a Book called ‘Public Speakers, You’re Not All That’ – 12 Reasons Why
Event Planners Won’t Hire You, that became an instant Bestseller. Now available on amazon.
In a Nutshell, Orly Amor Delivers!

Quick question: do you want to get more speaking gigs this year and fill your calendar for 2021
and beyond? If so, you need to get registered for this amazing 5 Day Virtual Speaker
Challenge – It is The Fastest and Easiest Way to Launch and Grow a 6 Figure Public
Speaking Business in Just 1 Year Whether you are Just Starting or a Seasoned Speaker.

• Are you tired of trying to figure it out all on your own and want someone to actually show
  you what to do without beating around the bush?
• Are you tired of getting very little or no responses from Event Planners and feel like it’s
  just too much work?
• Are you still working on Publishing your Book thinking it will get you more paid speaking
  gigs?
• Are you still working on Your Brand or Website thinking you even need one?
• Do you have a great message and you just want to share it with the world?
• Are you tired of speaking for Free or for No Fee and want to be paid your worth?
• Do you want to learn how to get 250 Gig Leads in 5 Days?
• To learn all that and so much more you must Register here!

So, join Orly Amor on the 5-day Virtual Speaker Challenge.

You can find Orly Amor on her website and email her at Orly at OrlyAmor.com or by calling or texing Orly at 917-515-6803.

•  

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Below is the full transcript from the show with Ayelet Baron. Please note that there may be some errors as it was auto transcribed using Otter.ai. (referral link that provides us with a 1-month Premium Pass

Tim McDonald 0:03
All right, well welcome everybody to the business of speaking show. I am your host, Tim McDonald, and today joined by my special guest, Orly Amor. How’re you doing?

Orly Amor 0:13
I’m great. Thank you for having me.

Tim McDonald 0:15
Oh, no, I’m so glad to have you here and can’t wait to dive into your story a little bit more. But, you know, just to set the stage for anybody watching, you know, the business speaking show is not really a show that we feature speakers, and what they talk about on the stage, but really about how they got started on their journey to the stage, what they’ve learned along the path to get being on the stage. And so if you are thinking about getting involved in a speaker, you know, you are a speaker, just getting going and want to really grow your career, or as 2020 has taught us, no matter what we think we know about what’s happening, things can change on an instance notice. So it’s really for anybody in the speaking industry or interested in the speaking industry, but really geared towards those either thinking about getting started, or just getting started. So with that, before we dive into the beginning of your story, why don’t you tell us a little bit about, you know, what your career looks like? Now, what you talk about some of the major accomplishments that you’ve had?

Orly Amor 1:19
Well, that’s a loaded question. But thank you for asking. Well, a lot of things have happened. And I know as much as not everybody has been ready for what happened with COVID. This year, I got busier, on on the speaking circuit as virtually as well, as I published a book in 2019, called public speakers, you’re not all that 12 reasons why event planners won’t hire you, I had interviewed 3400 event planners that pay speakers for that book. So it’s a major accomplishment. And it can help everyone in anyone today and tomorrow and for many years to come. And I’ve also spoken virtually to an event that was International, that was really cool. It was a nine and a half hour event. And it was in 115 countries and 30 million people were watching. So I feel like that’s a big accomplishment. And I mean, it’s been just an amazing journey, meeting a lot of speakers who are getting out there, and just really amazing stuff is happening. So I’m closer to my goal of impacting the lives of 200 million people around the planet by 2025. So I’m really excited about that.

Tim McDonald 2:36
That is wonderful and amazing. So congrats on everything that you’re doing, and getting closer to that goal.

Orly Amor 2:44
Oh, purpose.

Tim McDonald 2:47
So tell us, you know, now that we know kind of where you’re at and what you’ve You know, you’re done and where you’re heading. Tell us how did this all start for you? How did you get involved in actually speaking?

Orly Amor 2:59
Well, I was in property management for a very long time. And I was already speaking in that realm. And I never really wanted to tell my personal story. And one day, my girlfriend asked me to speak at a woman’s shelter. And I said, Well, what do you want me to speak about I? There’s nothing I could speak to these people about them in property management. She said, Well, I want you to come and tell your story. Long story short, she was after me for about three weeks. And finally I relented, and I spoke at this woman’s shelter. A few months later, I had her I had hired a coach, because motivational speaking was not my thing. I was following Tony Robbins and other people, but it was for my own healing and my own growth, not to speak. And it was very funny and not funny. But Haha, kind of funny. It was more the fact that I met a woman that wanted to end her life that day. And after hearing me speak, she decided to live and asked me to show her how that’s when I realized the power of sharing your own story. And just to sharing with you where I have been, or where my story is, in 18 seconds or less. I know we’re pressed for time. But I was a big enough child that was molested four times before the age of 14, I was raped three times before the age of 22. Twice gang raped nine months left for dead nine months apart. Also, I was married to a very abusive husband. And as a result of all that I had four abortions and gained a moment more than the amount of weight I was 428 pounds with my heaviest. So to say the least I did not have any worse or better story than anyone that was in that audience. And that’s why I didn’t feel like sharing my story was a big deal. And so then I realized how powerful is it to share our story. And in that act of sharing their contribution. You just never know whose life you’re going to change. And then I realized my real mission in life is to impact people’s lives and share with the world. So that’s where it’s at. If you will, I wanted to just do that for the rest of my life.

Tim McDonald 5:05
Now, that is so amazing. And I believe in that so much myself about the power of story and how we share our own and how it can impact others. So it’s great that you had that moment. I’m kind of curious, I’m guessing, I don’t want to I hate it, you know, assuming things but I’m guessing that that speaking gig probably didn’t pay you.

Orly Amor 5:28
That speaking gig did not pay me. And but we talked but I was always paid on the property management side. And then I got I got certified as a behavior analyst, and I was teaching networking in corporations. And I was also teaching in corporations how to close the deal 98% of the time through profiling. So that was my those are more my biggest topics. And then mindset mastery became another topic. And for those I’ve always been paid. So for many, many years, I have always been paid to speak until 2010. I was invited to speak in Arlington, Texas. And I’m, by the way, I have been to 26 countries, 18 states, and I’ve always been paid to speak. So this is a journey of where I ended up speaking in Arlington, Texas. And it was a big convention, a business convention. And these three speakers came over to me in the break room for speakers. And they just said, aren’t you Orly Amor? I said, Yes. Do I know you? I’m sorry. I don’t remember. They said, No, we we never met before, but we’ve seen you on the circuit. I said, Oh, okay, great. So we just introduced ourselves started networking, and at 1.1 of them said to me, I’m just curious, how did you get this gig? I said, I don’t know. I called I told them what I speak about, they paid me and I’m here. They all looked at me. Like if I had three heads, you got paid off like, oops, um, you guys didn’t. They said, No, we got our expenses paid. But we net we didn’t get paid. I said, Oh, no, no, I got paid. And I got my expenses paid. And they said, Well, we want to know how you did that. And jokingly I sorted Tim, I didn’t even know what to say. But jokingly I said, Well, you know, if I tell you, I’m going to have to charge you. But I was just kidding. And before I could say Just kidding. We said okay, maybe your price. And I’m like what? Let me get back to you on that. Because I have no idea what you’re talking about. What do you mean, you didn’t get paid? I was so upset, actually. Because I am more about a fairness. And I didn’t know until them you know, you don’t know what you don’t know. Until that moment. I did not know that speakers did not get paid. That was my What? What do you mean? Do it like aha moments, right. And when I went home from that event, I realized there’s a problem in this industry. And I sat down and I wrote what is called today the business in a box for public speakers, because I did not know that people did not get paid.

Tim McDonald 8:01
Wow. Oh, as somebody who started my speaking career, almost 11 years ago, I have done my fair share of not getting paid speaking, especially in the early days.

Orly Amor 8:17
And there’s so many like that. And some of them are told not to not to get paid in the beginning of their career. I don’t believe that. I’m sorry to say it that way. But I don’t believe that it’s a myth. There’s a few myths out there. I just don’t I believe that if you have a message, somebody is willing to pay for it. A few statistics, it’s 100 billion dollar a year industry. Why wouldn’t you get paid 64,000 events a day in America alone, Canada and the United States pay speakers every single day? And they did not vanish? Because of covid 19. So where did they go? Right? Everybody’s probably asking that question.

Tim McDonald 8:58
Well, let’s get back to that. But I’m kind of curious. Because I’m, I just want to make sure I understand the timeline here. You were in property management. And you did give some talks and and, and so but those weren’t, they were paid. But were you getting paid as the property manager and your salary or getting paid with the from the events that you were speaking at?

Orly Amor 9:19
No, I was paid from the events that I was speaking at. So I had a company for property management, but it was I had employees and so that was taken care of, then I was being called by different associations all over the country. That’s how I did the 18 states because people knew who I was. And I changed the law in the state of Florida. I mean, I did many amazing things in the property management field, that I was being called to speak in different places. And I wrote a couple of books on the subject matter and yeah, so no, I was being paid very handsomely. Thank you.

Tim McDonald 9:52
Well, that’s good. That’s great. Um, so I’m just kind of curious when you know, how did you get that first opportunity to To speak on, you know, back in those days, I mean, what was it like? And I mean, did you search it out? Knowing that’s what you wanted to do? Or was? Did somebody just come to you and say, Hey, we’d really like you to come speak or leave?

Orly Amor 10:12
So that’s a great question. Because many people say, used to ask me to follow me for one day. And I would tell them that that would be the most boring day of their life in the old days, because in the old days, we had to pick up the phone and call cold call. So I used to sit at my, at my desk, almost 12 to 16 hours a day making phone calls cold calling, and emailing. I mean, it was all very old stuff. You know, I mean, really old computers, we used to use Lotus 123. In the days that I started speaking, do you know how old I am? 53. So

Tim McDonald 10:49
I remember that, too. So I think we’re in the same room.

Orly Amor 10:54
Nice. So, um, you know, in the, in those days, it was a lot harder to find gigs. But there were also fewer speakers. Things have changed. But yes, I had to do it myself manually and find out everything by myself. In the beginning, it was very, very challenging, because I had to learn everything on my own, nobody would teach you nobody would share their information in you know, just like they used to call corporate world, you know, sharks, the shark, you know, being sharks in corporate? Well, it was it’s the same in any event wasn’t the same in every industry, nobody would share their information. Nobody would help you in anything you want to make you want to make it in this business good. Go find out how to do it by yourself, nobody’s going to help you. It’s not like today, when we have coaches and mentors and people, you can actually help you learn the, you know, cut the curving the learning curve in half or two thirds, etc.

Tim McDonald 11:57
So how did you know before you started making those calls for 12-16 hours a day? I mean, how did you know this was what you wanted to do?

Orly Amor 12:05
Um, I fell in love with public speaking. I think in the beginning, it was more of an ego thing. I just enjoyed the rush of being on a stage and, and, and enjoying people coming afterwards and telling me how great they are, how important it was that they came and how, how much they got out of it, or how good I did. It was fun to hear that it was beating it was boosting my morale. Because, you know, in property management, especially, I used to get off the stage and like, Oh, Mr. Moore, we have problems in our associations or not in our board of directors, there’s always one person that doesn’t do doesn’t want to vote and doesn’t want to do and Bob, I was always problems, problems, problems. And then I go to this women’s shelter, and everybody’s hugging me and thanking me for coming. It was such a culture shock that I was like, No, I think I like the hugs better. I think I like that. The people hugging me and thanking me for coming and sharing. I think I want to do that more. There was just bad really, that I knew that I wanted to be in front of a crowd. I like to sing. So I was like, okay, public speaking just gives you the same height, I think I’m gonna like enjoy this too.

Tim McDonald 13:18
Now, that’s, that’s wonderful. And I’m just kind of curious. I mean, you make it sound like it, you know, it was obviously a lot of work. But it You make it sound like it was just so natural and easy for you to kind of get these gigs, obviously, by making all these calls. Can you give us an idea about you know, what was the process like from when you first started making those calls to actually getting, you know, speaking gigs and, you know, really feeling the results of what you were looking to achieve?

Orly Amor 13:50
I would tell you that the first three months, I just wanted to shoot myself. Because at the end of the three months, I did not get anything, I was really just making a lot of calls and a lot of people would not get back to you and a lot of people will, you know will say oh, well how long have you been speaking and I would have to say a year you know, it was very hard. In the beginning. I didn’t know what to say. And I didn’t know how to talk and I didn’t know how to deal with rebuttals. So it was everything to learn as you go. Okay, so next time Let me try this thing or let me try this script. And let me tell you so it’s, it’s like you you you know, you’re a friend of mine really likes it. His name is Benji, he likes to to talk about the boxer in the ring. You know, like if he ever started just boxing. He would learn after having a black guy how to move his head so he doesn’t get another black guy right. Basically, you learn as you go, but learning the hard way. This is what happened to me. I learned how to tweak my script how to how to deal with rebuttals, how to answer positively how to build those relationships and how to never close the door and never hang up saying Oh, okay, thank you. Bye bye. No, it wasn’t never thank you. When, when, when is your next event? What can I How can I get on your list? How can I? How can I continue this conversation and I have to basically just ask the questions and being vulnerable with these events lenders, so that I can learn from them instead of being the beggar for a gig. And that is how I learned and how I tweaked. So the first three months of 12 to 16 hours a day, were many, many calls where I did not even know what I was doing. But after a while, I got some gigs. And I did get some gigs during those three months, but they were for later. So now what, and then I didn’t ask for the deposit. And I didn’t ask for certain things. And then they would ask me for something and I didn’t have it. And when I sent it, it wasn’t in the right format. And oh, my goodness, then I was, Oh, well, what do I do now? Like, where do I get that? And so it took a while. And so when people now ask me to show them or do it for them? It’s like, Okay, do you understand how much work goes into? Right? I mean, not sure I learned it overnight. It didn’t take long at all. No, it was a lot of work. And so this business is really a business. And that’s what people need to understand. Really, it does take a while. And you got to have patience, though. Because I’m sorry, I’m gonna say it this way, but you don’t sleep with every person you meet. You know, you don’t go on a first date and say, Okay, well, unless it’s your thing. But at the end of the day, you got to build that relationship, the know, like trust and, and get to know people a little better on a on a deeper level before you get into this relationship, that it’s your friendship even right? You don’t call everybody your friend, because they’re not you don’t know anything about them. So it’s the same principle.

Tim McDonald 16:52
Well, I so appreciate you opening up and sharing that because I am not a believer in an easy button that everybody has this overnight success. And I, I want people to understand that there’s work that goes into this. I’m kind of curious about your mindset, though. Because three months of 12 to 16 hours a day of making calls, how did you go through each day and get up the next day and say, This is what I’m gonna do again, and again, and again.

Orly Amor 17:27
buckling down is not easy. Not even for me, I’m ADHD, like, I need to get up and do and, and I lived in a beautiful house that has a pool. And the fridge was not far, it wasn’t the hardest thing I’ve ever live in Florida. So you can only imagine how much I wanted to go outside by the pool. Um, and I say I say this with love, because you understand now how even harder it was. You see, I live in Brooklyn now. So it’s easier to say, Oh, yeah, sure. I don’t want to go outside. But it was in a very beautiful place. And I will tell you that you have to have a focused mission. And my focused mission was to impact people’s lives. If it wasn’t for my mission, then I don’t think I would have made it. I’m like, do I really want to do this? How badly do you want this early every morning? How badly do you want to get on stages early? How badly do you want this early? I have to talk to myself every day in the mirror. So do you want to do this? You’re sure you want to do this? Are you sure? How Sure. are you today? How are you sure? Is it 90%? Is it 80%? You better get to 100 really quickly or else you’re not gonna sit in that chair. And I used to really talk to me, this is how I used to mindset talk to myself. Yeah, like people talk to me and say, you talk to yourself. Yeah, I talk to myself, I like to talk to someone intelligent for a change. I’m just kidding. But you know, like, of course, I’m going to tell myself that you better buckle down. You can’t be any better a coach than yourself. Because you can have 100 coaches right now, and you should have coaches. But at the end of the day, you’re the only one that’s gonna push yourself out of bed and get ready for the day. Oh, and by the way, I never worked in my pajamas. I never I got up, I did the shower. I got dressed. My hair was done makeup on beautiful clothes on, like, and I sat at the chair, like if I was going to an office. And I didn’t like every day was like, Okay, is there a camera following me? I do that for other projects that even today, if I have a project, I’ll get up and do exactly that and feel like there’s a camera following me. What if I was on TV for 24 hours? What would they say? What would they see? Am I doing what I’m supposed to be doing for my goals? And that’s how I treated myself every single day. It was hard. I’m not going to tell you it was easy. That’s for sure. It was not. It was a battle every day. It’s a going on diet. Oh mg. I mean I lost 230 pounds. I get value. It was like doing that. It was like, oh, Lord, every day, it’s a, it’s a struggle. It’s it’s a, it’s a commitment. It’s a big commitment to yourself, it’s even worse, because it’s a commitment to yourself, you can actually cheat anytime you like, you can do whatever, whenever nobody’s You know, there’s not a clock on you. There’s no Boss, I didn’t have a boss. You know, I didn’t need to do it. If I didn’t want to, I could have just not done it. I had the money to sustain myself. I mean, basically, if I wanted to do just go back to property management, but I said no, no, no, don’t want to go to property management ever again. No, no, no, I don’t want to work. That was work. Imagine that. That was work, instead of sitting at a computer for 12 to 16 hours and making phone calls. That was not work. Oh, boy, I had to really convince myself this is it? That’s that’s the fashion, you know?

Tim McDonald 20:53
Well, I know, you mentioned that. A lot of this, especially when you first started was you having to learn on your own because there wasn’t additional resources out there. along your path. Have you found other resources or other ways that you can learn from others and, you know, take ideas and continually kind of evolve and improve your business.

Orly Amor 21:18
Um, the time that I was already successful, and by successful is multiple, six figures in this business, I had people coming to me. So the resources were just, if you will have already cut the learning curve. So I already reduced my 12 to 16 hours to about two hours a day. So at that point, I didn’t feel like I needed other resources. What I, when I really say to people is now that there’s resources, there’s everywhere resources. But what is not available until today is your commitment to this business. It is a business. And thinking of it as a business, Tim is I’d like to give the analogy of a store like you and I are best friends, right. And we have an amazing friend who’s a real estate agent, and she found us the best location for our brick and mortar store. So we’re going to need the the key to the front door, we’re going to need the Hours of operation on the door, we’re going to need the name of the store on top of the door. When we go inside, we might need an alarm system or a camera system a cash register one of those computers iPads for for processing credit cards, we’re going to need insurance and maybe a liability insurance, a bank account, and we’re gonna hire a bookkeeper because you and I don’t like to do that job. Okay. But did I tell you what we’re selling? No. That’s the business of public speaking because the product is you. So if you don’t have the commitment to your own store, are you going to open every day? Are you going to open it for two hours? Three hours, four hours? What do you What’s your operating hours? Really? So if that’s that’s the business side, if you if you don’t understand that you will never make it in this business? Because that commitment is daily, not? Oh, I don’t know. I feel like doing it today. Maybe tomorrow? Or maybe they’ll call me. Yeah, no, not today. People won’t call you. Weird. You know what I mean? It’s, it has shifted so much. 10 years before COVID. And now completely. So 180?

Tim McDonald 23:24
Well, I know we’re kind of wrapping up on our time here. But one question I love asking it and I I’m really interested in what you would have to say on this is knowing what you know. Now, if you could go back to yourself when you first started. What’s one piece of advice that you would give your younger self?

Orly Amor 23:45
Never give up… Never give up. No matter what state stay the course. stay in your lane. stay the course. Because there’s a lot of naysayers and a lot of people that say what are you doing? Are you crazy? No. So many people say to me, come out with us. Go you never come out with us. You never come for a drink. You never come to you. You’re not even coming to my birthday lab, blah, blah. And I’m like, No, I’m sorry, I got to work. I got to work. I got to work whether I had a boss, no boss, whatever. I had to stay the course or else because those people will not live my dreams. Give me my dreams, you know, so just stay the course and stay focused. Never give up.

Tim McDonald 24:23
Oh, fantastic. Thank you so much early and please let our watchers know how they can get in touch with you where they can find you.

Orly Amor 24:34
All right. Basically Orly Amor dot com. Very simple. That’s my website, OrlyAmore.com. And they can also email me at Orly at OrlyAmor.com, and my phone number is right there so 917-515-6803 and they can text call anytime.

Tim McDonald 24:53
I love that you give your phone number out to I’m a big believer in that myself. Well, and if you’re watching, I just want to let you know that even though we’re going to end the youtube broadcast, Orly is agreed to stay on with me and record one additional question and that question won’t ever be found on YouTube. But it will be found if you sign up for our newsletter if you go to speaking dot business and just sign up for our weekly newsletter. This is exclusive content that only goes out to our email subscribers. So we hope to see you there. Thank you for watching and thank you for joining us Orly.

Orly Amor 25:32
Thank you for having me.

 

• When you put yourself in situations to get up in front of a room, it can lead to you becoming the speaker 
• You don’t have to intend on becoming a speaking if you have the ability and willingness to share your knowledge
• What people say to you after you talk can have a larger impact than what you say on stage
• If you like dialogue, workshops can be more rewarding than delivering keynotes  
• Being willing to talk from your heart also means you have to accept the fact you may not be invited back
• Relationships, trust and community are the new/old marketing

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Who is Ayelet Baron?

Author · Healer · Global Futurist

Through masterfully facilitated guided sessions, books and talks, Ayelet Baron assists people around the globe in their transition to living a healthy life. Recognized as one of the top 50 global female futurists by Forbes, she has been described as a force of nature when it comes to envisioning a more humane world. Her work has been inspired by futurist Buckminster Fuller, who reminds us that “We are called to be the architects of the future, not its victims.”

After a very successful career in the Silicon Valley as a global strategist working in every corner of the world, Ayelet chose to write the books she wished had when she started on her journey of becoming a conscious architect. Ayelet is passionate about driving sustainable change and being of service to the next generation of healthy creators. She now offers guidance to those who are ready to trek into the unknown through her writing, guided sessions and custom project work.

She is a designer + strategist dedicated to the evolution of the next generation of conscious leaders. Integrating humanities, behavioral science and evolutionary strategy, she envisions a world where people matter and business plays a greater role in societal value. She has worked with leaders within Fortune 100 organizations, leading NGOs and startups. Ayelet has been designing experiences, keynote speaking, and facilitating leadership sessions for decades and has worked in over 100 countries as a global technology executive.

What makes her approach unique, is her personal story of seeking the truth. To that extent, she has worked to gain clarity and ground herself in the reality of doing the right thing for herself and her community. She shares her story openly so others can learn from her lessons and apply it to themselves.

Ayelet was a strategic consultant to Genius 100 Visions, Inspired by Albert Einstein, a purpose driven community uniting 100 global Visionaries from the Chair, Astronaut Soichi Noguchi, to Colonel Chris Hadfield, Marc Benioff, Sir Ridley Scott, Sir Ken Robinson, Paul Allen, Paulo Coelho, and additional Visionaries. Ayelet was the Chief Strategy and Innovation Officer for Cisco, co-creating a strategy to take Canada to the second largest revenue country. She also helped the global mobile business in 2003, and held several positions in sales strategy around the world. Ayelet was the first Chief Diversity and Inclusion Officer for Cisco in Emerging Markets and also served on the IT Senior Executive team where she helped position IT as a strategic business partner. Prior to Cisco, she had a rich consulting background and also worked as a public opinion pollster.

You can always find Ayelet Baron on Linkedin, Twitter , and Medium. And don’t forget to check out her website where you can learn more about her books.

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Below is the full transcript from the show with Ayelet Baron. Please note that there may be some errors as it was auto transcribed using Otter.ai. (referral link that provides us with a 1-month Premium Pass

Tim McDonald 0:00
All right, welcome everybody to the business of speaking show, I am your host, Tim McDonald. And I am joined by my very dear friend, Ayelet Baron, how are you?

Ayelet Baron 0:10
I’m doing great look at look at where I am and my imagination.

Tim McDonald 0:16
But looks like you’re actually there. The wind blowing and the waves coming up on the beach all together at once. So for those of you who may not know, what the business is speaking show is it’s really a show where I have the opportunity to interview speakers, not on what they talk about on the stage, but their journey of how they got there, and what they’ve learned ever since. So, with that, getting started, let’s have you, Ayelet. I don’t think I’ve ever talked to you about this out of all the things we talked about. Tell us your story of how you got started speaking?

Ayelet Baron 0:50
Well, I think you don’t mean when I was two or three years old, right?

Tim McDonald 0:54
Not like language, but you know, like kind of getting up in front of people on stage who most of us talk about speaking in this industry.

Ayelet Baron 1:04
I know, but I can’t start something with you without a laugh. Um, for me, it was when I fired myself from my PhD program. And I started working in market research, doing a lot of public opinion polling in the beginning for the national newspaper in Canada, and then I decided to do a career transition and got into consulting around organizational change internal communication and culture. And I wasn’t getting everything I needed from my work. So I decided to join an industry association. And when I started, I didn’t realize that I would end up being the president of the association’s largest chapter. And it forced me every lunch, to introduce the speakers, and to get up and talk in front of a crowd. And as I started doing it, I soon transformed into being a speaker, both in Canada, and then internationally as well. So it was never kind of like an intention to do it. But it was just an ability to share information and and address things that I had a lot of knowledge about.

Tim McDonald 2:16
Yeah, it’s kind of interesting. That’s what I’m picking up a trend that nobody I think starts out Well, I shouldn’t say nobody, because I’m sure there’s gonna be somebody, it’s gonna surprise me, but almost nobody talks about it. I knew from the time I was very young, that I wanted to be a speaker and nothing else. So tell us, um, you know, what, what was it like? Um, because I know, you know, from my experience, at least, getting up in front of a group of people and, you know, introducing somebody else, or, you know, talking about a topic that’s work related in a meeting or something like that is much different, I think, than getting up in front of a stage where you’re the one where all the eyes are focused on and can you do you remember that first time that you did that? And what was that? What were you feeling? What was that? Like?

Ayelet Baron 3:10
I was feeling amazement, because for people who know me, they’ll be shocked to know that I was really shy when I was young. And I would have like to convince myself to go into a store and to buy something, it took a lot of courage for me to do those things. Because I was incredibly shy, I’m, you might be surprised that I was shy as well, Tim. Um, and so you know, the first step of getting up and introducing other people was to get over that terrifying fear of shyness that I had, about realizing that I have this voice. And the first time I was there, it was I was like, I was like watching myself and going, I can’t believe that, you know, we can really do what we set our minds to do and get over ourselves. And it was a really amazing experience. Not because I got up and to speak, it was because of the conversations I had afterwards. The people who came to engage with me, not while I was on stage, but afterwards and telling them what the talk did for them. And, you know, we got to co create after that, and doing that, like really early on. I also started doing a lot of workshops, I had a specialization in in metrics and measurement as well. And so we do a lot of workshops on that. And I actually enjoyed that a lot more because I got to have dialogue and to really listen to people’s questions rather than to stand on the stage and talk ironically, if I had completed my PhD, if I had done my dissertation, I would be standing in front of people teaching, which I had to do during, you know, my math when I served for my masters and my doctor as well. I was teaching so I was standing in front of people and talking but it was a very different experience. Have not feeling like I was the lecture I was the teacher and stepping into these big shoes that I felt that speakers have in the world.

Tim McDonald 5:10
Yeah, it’s interesting is, you know, I’m listening about the, you know, wasn’t so much what you said up on the stage, but what happened after you got off the stage? And how have you kind of used that, and, you know, had it work for you, so that you got more of that instead of just being, you know, the person that everybody is listening to?

Ayelet Baron 5:34
Well, I think, um, I remember, I’m a talk I did in, in Mexico, which is probably where this picture is, I don’t know, in front of 500 people, and I just, as I walked up to speak, my necklace, which was totally closed in a clasp fell into my hand, and I, you know, I had, I had the audio on, like, like you and I was ready to go on, there are 500 people there sitting in waiting, and all of a sudden my necklace like, and I had no time to pause and to say what has happened. And what I felt at that point, when I look back at it, it was like the universe telling me that was time to get my voice out. And when I took that stage, I just let myself go. And right afterwards, this guy came up to me and said, You know, I thought you were just going to be one of these other speakers that comes from a corporate background that’s going to tell me all this stuff. And I was sitting back and I was really skeptical. And then you started talking and I was just like, oh my god, she speaks my language, she’s talking about things that are relevant to me, I can relate to this. It’s not just like propaganda, or, you know, a canned speech or something. It’s really real. And it was interesting, he then followed up with an email. And I actually captured something that he wrote about fear in my book, our journey to corporate sanity. And so like from that, that little moment of that talk, I have something now that is part of a book that I wrote. And then he also was doing some work, and I helped him, you know, I didn’t charge him or anything, but I just worked with him on an idea that he had and connected him with people that I thought would be valuable for him. And I have so many stories like this, this is just like one example. But it’s it’s about being able to touch people in this way that really makes it important to me, rather than, you know, my the most popular speaker my the most loved or the most liked. It’s it’s about making an impact.

Tim McDonald 7:45
One and how has that kind of evolved, ever since that moment, when you had that realization for you.

Ayelet Baron 7:56
It actually freed me quite a bit. And I remember, I got invited to speak at this very conservative organization. And I asked them multiple times if they’re ready for me. And, and they said yes, but I didn’t realize that one of the reasons they invited me to speak as a futurist was to be a shock factor for their boss. And instead of like, I love the fact that I didn’t know it. And I could just really be factual and talk about things that are coming and things that people need to be aware of, and not be bound by the fact that, Oh, I’m getting paid for this. So I have to say what they want me to say. And, and being very clear that what I bring is very different than then what most people bring, because I don’t think we’re gonna shift unless we start saying what’s truly in our hearts. And I think that a lot of things that are really important is our ability to find our voice. And if my being up there encourages, you know, hundred, 200, 500 or one person to find their voice and to come into work the next day, and be able to be, you know, a more healthy person, then I’ve done my work. I may not be invited back again, but that’s okay.

Tim McDonald 9:22
Well, and I know, I know, just based upon some conversations that you and I have had that you have actually mentioned, and I don’t know if this whole still holds true or not, but that your goal was not to be a speaker and travel and get on stages. And so how do you have a speaking business? How do you get that message out? How do you connect with people if you’re not traveling and getting up on stages?

Ayelet Baron 9:46
Well, my dream has always been to be an author. And I actually went the other route. I became a speaker before before I started writing, and so I’ve been putting on a little bit of a pause For the last probably the last eight months, and really focusing on the writing and hoping that once my, my triplets, my book series comes out in the fall of 2020, then I could stop come in and speak again and again, the world has changed. So being able to do it virtually being able to do it, I’d love to, like have more dialogue, and and really take an issue and talk to people and understand what their problems and opportunities are. Because one of the things that I’m bringing into the world is, you know, we need to step away from the problem/solution mindset, and really move into opportunity creators. So once I get these books out, I’m going to be going out into the world and saying here, I’m available to come and talk about how we look at opportunities, how do we really lead in the 21st century, in a conscious way, and understand that leadership is not outside ourselves. So the second book is really about trekking into the unknown, and I’m living it in every possible way right now. So it would be great to come back on the show, you know, like a year from now and truly answer that question for you about what I did. Because right now, I’m super excited to just trek into the unknown. Without a manual without, you know, a lot of people just it’s kind of wonderful and crazy, a lot of people kind of find me in, you know, in working right now to figure out how to get these books out to the people that are ready for them, which is very non traditional, than just rather like getting out a book because I’ve written a book for the human soul. And so there’s not like, a cookie cutter way to get it out. And I think that will help me with partnership with people like you and other people out there, that we can get our messages out, which is why I love what you’re doing here. And believe in it. So I think again, you know, I I’ve been very blessed. I’ve worked in over 100 countries around the world. And you know, whether I got to speak as a as a business of you defining it, but I you know, when I was a corporate executive, I spoke a lot and company events and, and internally, and I guess I got paid for it because I was an employee. So I don’t know what your qualification is. But I’ve always been very bold and very fearless. Because I think that, you know, our time on earth is very precious. And we came here to really create. And and that’s what it’s all about. So a year from now, I might be able to answer your question, but right now, I’m tracking into the unknown, trusting my heart and discovering, you know, the wonder of me. So we can discover the wonder of everybody and really shift things on this planet in a really healthy way.

Tim McDonald 13:02
So I, you know, as, and I, by the way, I just, you know, I just love and adore all that and you. But I’m just, you know, as I’m listening, and I relate it to what I’ve seen and heard from so many others, if they’re talking about like, you know, if you’re a speaker, if you want to be a speaker, write a book, right? And I’m hearing you that you were a speaker, you’re not writing the book to get more speaking. But you’ve kind of put that on pause while you’re writing the book. But how does that? I mean, how do you kind of envision I know it’s unknown? And I know you don’t know exactly, but how is it kind of been like, you know, or what’s your thoughts on how that relates to, you know, how you market the book, right? How you get the book to more people through speaking, and how, how they book actually helps you get more speaking, because it sounds like in the past, you’ve always had opportunities that have presented themselves to you because of what you’ve done. And it sounds like that’s the same approach that you’re trusting yourself with moving forward.

Ayelet Baron 14:06
Yeah, I think I’ve been published quite a bit before, like, even my book, but because I was like really busy working in corporate, I didn’t have time to write the book. I was too busy working.

Tim McDonald 14:20
And wait, this isn’t work? writing a book is not work?

Ayelet Baron 14:25
It is the hardest work I’ve ever done in my life. And, and things are just coming out really quickly. But I think I think again, I’m not your traditional person. I don’t you know, I put down the manual of success. I’ve actually had a little burning ceremony of it as well. And, and I’m really looking at ways like, you know, I’m reaching out to people, and it’s amazing. I look at who I’m starting to connect with out in the world from a heart base and who I want to also work with And connect with the work that I’m creating. Because it’s not for everyone. You know, it’s not, it’s not something that will appeal to everybody, I’m really looking for the people that are and the companies that really want to look at opportunities and are willing to take risks and do things in a much healthier way than today. Because, you know, to me, the the most important app for the 21st century is humanity itself. And, you know, coming from a technology background and working on making companies incredibly successful, I realized that we have to get back to our humanity in how we treat ourselves and how we treat others. So yesterday, I had the most amazing conversation with someone who I never ever imagined I would connect with. And at the end of it, she said to me, just let me know, and we’ll do a we’ll do a podcast together. And if you want to get other people, let’s do it. And, you know, I’m being guided and advised to go find the influencers, and I’ve taken it to a different level of the people that are influencing the people that I know would resonate with the books, which is very different, because I’m not looking at it from an audience perspective. And I think that from a speaking perspective, I’m really starting to think differently about how I approach this, because I am not, you know, a billion dollar company that I worked for before I am, you know, just little old me here, a little speck in the universe. And so how could this, this, you know, tiny little person, get out there and be able to open hearts and minds that are ready to be opened or play with or, you know, like, you know, my dream is like that we get to play and create together? And because I don’t have your answers, because I don’t know you I was just writing about it this morning, or editing. You know, that, you know, we’ve got to stop telling people how to how to do things when we don’t know who they are. And we’ve got to really understand our power source. And so everything that I’m writing or putting in these books I’m practicing, and when I don’t, the universe kicks my ass, like you won’t believe. So. I think for me, the marketing pieces is really something that you and I have talked about a lot, which is relationships, trust and community. And being able to be trusted in someone else’s community is one of the things that I’m seeing is really important, rather than saying, oh, you’re an influencer, here’s my message, just put it out. It’s no, it’s like, how do our messages intertwine and interconnect, so we can have a bigger influence in the world. And I’m asking a question, like yesterday, I think I threw this person totally off when I said to her, how can I help you? And then it went quiet for like a like, a couple of seconds. And she said, You’re so sweet. I said, so what do you mean, she goes, Well, this calls about you? And I said, No, no, this calls about us, and what we can create in the world. And I think I think that’s the opportunity is when you know, this is what you’re doing Tim here, from what I see too is building community. And when more of us come together, and we don’t have to compete and we could lift each other up and say, Hey, I know somebody who’s great for this. And, and not feeling like I missed out of something because that’s that interconnectedness and support that we can create in the world. And we could write new stories. And that’s what I’m here for.

Tim McDonald 18:49
I one thing I think that I’ve been finding too, is it’s a common theme amongst everybody that I’ve talked to so far about just that support in that community and helping each other out. And it’s becoming more and more clear that it’s there. It just nobody really talks about it. You know, and I love being able to shed that light on that. And that’s why I’m not focused on like, all the blueprints and the, the secrets and you know, it’s more about Who are these people? How did they get involved in this? What have they learned along the way, so that anybody wanting to get involved can see that there’s not one path. It’s so diverse and so different. Um, so you know, if you could go back and knowing what you know now, and talk to your younger self when you’re first getting involved in speaking. What advice would you give yourself?

Ayelet Baron 19:47
Don’t wait so long to let your voice out. You know, I mean, I was on a on a call on Friday with a bunch of friends that I went to the Amazon rainforest with And one of them was telling me that she’s doing these webinars with, you know how to look appropriate on zoom. And, you know, she started going through all the steps. And then she looked at me at my little box, and she said, Now Ayelet, you should be doing blah, blah, blah. And I just looked at her and I said, Now, you know, me, and being appropriate, I said, I’m on the friends and family, zoom, I’m sitting on the sofa. I don’t, I don’t, you know, I’m, I’m not the appropriate one to bring in all the time. Because, you know, if, if some of us don’t start breaking the rules, when it makes sense. And when it’s healthy, not not just casually, then you know, we’re all going to be the same and how boring is that our education system already, you know, is failing, because it puts everybody in the same direction. And, you know, when you’re in kindergarten nursery, you’re encouraged to tap into your imagination. But once you start getting until elementary school, you’re told to shut it off. And, and to be like, you know, like everyone else. And so, you know, there was a point in my life until I started really seeing the world for what it is, and in healthy eyes, that I started walking away from how things are supposed to be in what was accepted and what was not accepted. Because I started to know what it was for me. So I would give my younger self that advice, but I’m not sure she would understand it. Because I think she would have had to go through all the things, all the amazing times the wounds, the traumas, you know, all this stuff that we all go through. And so you know, and and it leads you back to here. So I’m grateful for even though some of them were heartbreaking, and still are, I’m just grateful for all of it. But I think I would love for for young people to know what’s what’s healthy and unhealthy for them. And not to buy into that this is the way it’s supposed to be. And you know, find our own rhythm and our own harmony, to be able to follow it. Because I think that is what kind of in inspires ourselves. And when we’re inspired, we’re on fire to inspire other people.

Tim McDonald 22:22
This has been wonderful. And I know I can keep talking to you forever. But what let people know, you know, where they can find you how they can learn more about your books. And I know that even if you’re not out speaking as much right now, because you’re writing, you’re sharing a lot of that writing. So where can they find you and connect with you.

Ayelet Baron 22:44
So the first thing you need to know, you don’t need to know so much how to pronounce my name, but you need to know how to spell it. And if you spell it, you could find me everywhere I think. And so it’s Ayelet it’s a-y-e-l-e-t the last name is Baron because Ayelet is a very common name and in some places. So the last name is spelled b-a-r-o-n, and you could email me at Aleyet27@gmail.com. That’s my eternal age. You could find me on Twitter ayeletb on medium as well, I ayeletb. It’s mostly ayeletb in most places unless it was taken, because it is a popular name in some cultures.

Tim McDonald 23:28
Oh, well thank you so much for being a guest and I’m sure you have your will have your information about your upcoming books,

Ayelet Baron 23:35
I’m sure listed on those places, you can go to Amazon book, Our Journey to Corporate Sanity, and my book series will be coming out in the fall of 2020. Thanks, Tim. And it’s called Fuck the Bucket List. The first book is called Fuck the Bucket List for the Soul Discover the Wonder of You.

Tim McDonald 23:57
I can’t wait. I’m looking forward to it. So thank you so much. Ayelet and thank everybody for tuning in and watching and if you are new to the end of the program at the end, I always stop the YouTube Live broadcast but I keep my guest on and record one question with them that only goes out to our email subscribers. So if you haven’t already subscribed, hop on over to speaking dot business. That .com it’s not business speaking business and join our community and sign up for the email list over there and you will be getting weekly answers that you aren’t going to find anywhere else so stay tuned and we will see you soon.

 

• Understanding the different types of talks and how you should approach them differently
• If you can, give yourself a long runway to hone your craft
• There are some similarities between education and speaking but giving a keynote requires a different approach
• Don’t rely on just speaking – look at how to diversify your revenue as you start your business
• Look at your area of expertise, that gives birth to being a speaker, author, etc. on that topic 
• Be ridiculously curious and see who you can learn from by asking questions about their processes
• You can’t please everyone, and that’s OK

If you have trouble viewing the video, check it out on YouTube. Be sure to subscribe to our YouTube Channel and get notified when new shows are added. 

Who is Dan Pontefract?

Dan Pontefract is the founder and CEO of The Pontefract Group, a firm that improves the state of leadership and organizational culture.

He is the best-selling author of four books: LEAD. CARE. WIN., OPEN TO THINK, THE PURPOSE EFFECT and FLAT ARMY. A renowned speaker, Dan has presented at four different TED events and also writes for Forbes and Harvard Business Review. Dan is an adjunct professor at the University of Victoria, Gustavson School of Business and has garnered more than 20 industry awards over his career.

His third book, OPEN TO THINK is the 2019 getAbstract International Book of the Year winner and the 2019 Axiom Business Book Award Silver Medal winner in the Leadership category.

Previously as Chief Envisioner and Chief Learning Officer at TELUS—a Canadian telecommunications company with revenues of over $14 billion and 50,000 global employees—he launched the Transformation Office, the TELUS MBA, and the TELUS Leadership Philosophy, all award-winning initiatives that dramatically helped to increase the company’s employee engagement to record levels of nearly 90%. Prior to TELUS he held senior roles at SAP, Business Objects and BCIT.

Dan and his wife, Denise, have three children (aka goats) and live in Victoria, Canada.

You can always find Dan Pontefract on Linkedin, Twitter, Instagram and Facebook. And don’t forget to check out his website. 

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Below is the full transcript from the show with Dan Pontefract. Please note that there may be some errors as it was auto transcribed using Otter.ai. (referral link that provides us with a 1-month Premium Pass

Tim McDonald 0:00
All right. Well welcome everybody to this business of speaking show. I am your host, Tim McDonald. And today I am so fortunate to be joined by somebody that I’ve had the pleasure of knowing for several years now and just got to work with him on a project early in 2020 called SpeakAid 2020. Dan Pontefract, how’re you doing Dan?

Dan Pontefract 0:19
Him, Uncle Tim, brother Tim, Tim, it’s so good to see you. It’s so good to be on your show, I’m so thrilled to be able to impart any type of experience or wisdom or knocks that I’ve taken in this the business of speaking but more importantly, Thanks for the invite, you are an amazing human being and had been for for your life, obviously. But since I probably met you in 2014, ish, I think somewhere around there.

Tim McDonald 0:43
I think that was right around the time of, of when your first book, I think was coming up Flat Army. So um, you know, and for those that might not have watched this show before, really what it is, is, it’s not to focus on what the speakers talk about on the stage, but their journey on how they got started to the stage and what they’ve learned since they’ve been up on the stage. So if you are thinking about getting started and speaking, are just starting in speaking, or as 2020 has taught us, no matter what you thought you knew about speaking, we never know what what the world has planned for us. This is a show for you and a community for you. So with that being said, Dan, I’d love to kind of kick off with, you know, telling your story of how you got started in speaking.

Dan Pontefract 1:35
Wow, well, I believe I was potentially put on this earth to be on a stage, or more importantly, what I just called in front of people to help. And when I was a kid, Tim, when I say kid, I mean sort of in my 12 to 16 year old self. I was on stage in plays. You know, I was Tom Sawyer. I was Huck Finn. I was in all sorts of different things that in Hamilton, where I grew up in Ontario, and the theater was something for me, where I could unleash, I suppose my desire to be creative in an artistic form in front of people. Now I was an athlete, and I was an academic, there’s a sort of like a third dimension to me, and I really enjoyed it. But then kind of when I turned 16, I got really heavily into soccer, and girls and work at the grocery store. And so it sort of took a backseat. In fact, it just disappeared. But what ensued over the following years was this penchant to help. And ultimately, I ended up at McGill University in Montreal, I thought I was going to be a doctor and or physiotherapist, I ended up being an educator. So I got my BA, I got my BE, bachelor of education. And I knew that that was a way for me to help but also kind of be on stage. So Denise, and I, my Incidentally, better half, and I picked up on a Montreal got married, moved to Vancouver, and became a teacher of high school for about two years. And it was lovely, you know, because every day, we were kind of on stage, if you will, helping, so it kind of married these two ideas of mine to be on stage to help so but I realized then as well, after the second year that maybe there’s more to helping and if you will, speaking then just in a classroom with 20 to 30 kids. So I went into higher ed. And in higher education for about five years, is again a different audience, but still in front. So I’m a director of a bunch of high tech professional career changing programs, cohort based model. And you know, I on Friday afternoons, I’d be able to what was called facilitate open dialogue about how things are going in their program, their lives, their career changes, etc. And it was a lot of two hour sessions of extemporaneous. Hey, what you doing? How can I help and weaving in stories? So then I entered into the corporate world, switching from education and higher ed into the corporate world, Tim, and it was then in 2002, where as a chief learning officer, I started delivering talks. And those talks were in conferences, right, it was in the organization. And that was in 2002. And then by the time I joined a telecom in 2008, I was now kind of quote, I would say on the circuit, and the circuit becoming, I was the kind of one of those guys that people would ask me to be at these conferences, to speak about Learning and Leadership and education, and culture and engagement. And so it really, it gave me a long runway to fixing and honing my craft which ultimately became my business or at least part of my business. Right around Say yeah, 2013 2014 when we met, and the book started coming out, and I complemented books with speaking with consulting, and that’s where I’ve been doing for the last five or six years.

Tim McDonald 5:11
Yeah, no, it’s I’m just always curious, because I’ve heard a lot of speakers have been in the classroom or, you know, at one point before they actually started doing speaking professionally, outside of the classroom. And I’m just kind of curious, was there a different feeling for you when you were getting up on stage? You know, not in front of a class, but in front of a different group of people that maybe you didn’t know?

Unknown Speaker 5:36
Yeah. Well, there’s, there’s different types of talks. I don’t know if we’ll get into that. But you know, there’s the keynote. There’s the sort of facilitated dialogue chat, if you will, sometimes fireside chats sometimes, you know, panels, right, and you’re still on stage. But then there’s, yeah, there’s, there’s times in which I would still call it a talk, you’re speaking but it’s more an extemporaneous, you know, massive coaching call. And it’s, it’s me, or whomever engaging with the audience, as if you’re doing a bit of off the cuff stand up, like how stand up comics might do when they engage with the audience, and they make it really funny. In these cases, I’m making it more of a coaching conversation with an audience. So first of all, I’ve learned that there’s different types of talks for sure. But you’re right, the question about, you know, coming from a classroom, or even, like I taught phys ed for a while as well. So you know, big classes of 50 to 70 kids and large gymnasiums, or pitches or field grabs, right? It’s different, obviously, because, in some cases, if you’re doing the formal keynote, let’s say it’s 45 or 60 minutes, you better have a plan to do a good intro, make sure it’s a good story, you know, make sure that there’s some levity, some self deprecation, and then you better have some sort of arc. And then a conclusion, whether you’re making them cry or feel good or both. You know, that’s, that’s a different art than the lesson in teaching, but getting up on stage, and being able to do it and know when to look at people in the audience know when to take a break. And when to pause, you know, when to rise and up and down with the emotions of the room, that’s a that’s a classroom technique of To be honest, and I’ve taken that those classroom techniques or gymnasium techniques and put that on the stage.

Tim McDonald 7:29
Now, that’s, it’s pretty interesting, that, you know, there are certain things that we need to still learn as we get into this. Now, I know, you know, when you work for a corporation, and you have the opportunity to get out and speak in front of whether it’s teams employees, or you know, in industry, you know, events, you know, you still have the comfort of having a paycheck from your employer. What made you or when did you know, it was right, for you to kind of embark on this on your own instead of having that kind of guarantee of a paycheck?

Dan Pontefract 8:06
It’s a great question. One. It’s a question. I think, Tim, that I’m often getting from folks that are working in, in organizations, be it public sector, not for profit, or obviously for profit corporations, you know, you’re it’s, I have been privileged, quite frankly, to have been able to be remunerated for many years by you know, high tech company by a telecom company and and hone that craft if you will, of becoming getting on stage and not having to worry about what I’m charging for a keynote or or not. And how many keynotes I could do pro bono, they were all pro bono. That’s just how it was. So I guess, you know, Dorie Clark, who’s a dear friend, and also just an amazing guests, as you probably have on the show, you know, Dorie, long ago had figured out how to have income streams, varied income streams. And so as much as I believe that there is a lot of goodness, and, and, and heart and giving that comes of speaking, I don’t think it can be the one thing that you do. I think that there are there is a need to have multiple revenue streams, if you will, if you’re about to go out on your own. So for me, you know, revenue streams of speaking in my if I look back in 2018 2019, halfway through 2020 or so, speaking is about a third of what I do revenue wise, it may not be a third timewise because it ebbs and flows. Sometimes I’m going to spend a lot of time on new material on ways in which to help a particular client so even though it might be a one hour keynote, it’s about 30 hours of work to get it right and then to practice it, right. But other times there there are keynotes where I know That I’ve delivered it perhaps one way for one client or a conference, I can tweak it. And then, you know, do it slightly differently, but not spend as much time. So the point being is that it’s about one third of revenue. And the other two thirds of my revenue streams are things like writing or things like coaching things like consulting, things like doing assessments and so forth. So, again, it’s a long winded answer. I’m sorry, Tim. But if I’m asking, if someone’s asking me, what did you do to get into the speaker world? Well, I didn’t just think I was going to be a speaker.

Tim McDonald 10:34
No, I think that’s very valuable and very helpful to so many people. Because, I mean, that was one of the things I had thought when I was gonna do it was I just wanted to be on stage, you know, and I’m still trying to figure out that that element of it, and I know a lot of other people will be too. So one thing that that I’m kind of curious about, because I see so many authors writing books, and so many speakers are, you know, do you call them a speaker? Do you call them an author, right? Because they’re both up on stage. So what, how do you view yourself and how did they both complement each other,

Dan Pontefract 11:11
uh, I am an author, I am a speaker. But first and foremost, I’m an I’m a leadership strategist. And the leadership strategist, insignia, if you will, is one that gives birth to being a speaker and author, a coach, a consultant, a learning designer, for all the online learning courses and things that I’ve built. Those are almost the outputs of being the leadership strategist. So So my job is to sort of say, look, Dan has ways in which he can support you, I’d love to be on stage. I mean, it’s great, I’d love to be in a facilitated workshop with 20 people online or face to face, I’d love to go into your organization and just sit with employees and listen to their stories, and understand how the culture is going on. I’d like to go in and help you build out a learning program or a leadership model. So whatever your thing is, your expertise, in my case, it’s leadership and culture and engagement and people in organizations and org design. I just call myself a leadership strategist. And then how I, how I deliver on that expertise comes in those either revenue streams, or channels or verticals, whatever you want to kind of think of them as, so if you’re a an expert in CPG, or the retail industry, you know, maybe you want to call yourself a retail strategist, or you know, a retail thought guru or whatever, I don’t really care. but you get the point, right? It’s what’s your expertise, and then go from there on how you can deliver modes of excellence so people can can learn from you.

Tim McDonald 12:55
Yeah, and, you know, you mentioned that you add a lot of different revenue streams built in from the beginning, when you launched out on your own. did was it obvious what they were? or How did you kind of figure out which revenue streams were going to be the right fit for you?

Dan Pontefract 13:14
Wow, I suppose Yeah, to each their own, because there are some dear friends of mine that probably have a 90% revenue stream on speaking and sort of 10% other, so it just sort of fill your boots depends on your fancy. And I’m not knocking folks that are doing all speaking all the time as their mode of revenue. What I did was I looked at myself and said, Do I want to speak all the time? And and that was a an answer that I often said no to. A) three goats were raising Denise and I lots of travel, obviously, it’s mitigated a bit to a degree with the pandemic. Well, it’s mitigated a lot, isn’t it? But that’s kind of where I’m going with, right. It’s a it’s an opportunity for you to say, what’s the right mix? And if your speaker x, whom wants to speak at 90% good on ya, but if you’re someone like me, who believes that, you know, there’s perhaps more ways in which for you to address your talent as a quote, leadership strategist, then, you know, you might, you might have to kind of mess around a little bit to find out what the right mix is. And again, I’ll say this, Tim, like, we all have rent to pay and mortgages to pay and groceries to pay and school clothes to pay for and so on. Right? So I’m not saying that you shouldn’t take on more speaking gigs if it’s going to help you get to the right, I guess, repertoire the mix. So don’t don’t hear me as if I’m being pompous and saying, Oh, you should do it. This. No, you got to do what works for you to pay the bills, right. But if you can get into a groove eventually that allows you to say I want to do 20 keynotes a year. And those 20 keynotes, I know, are gonna revolve around 20 times three, three days, because it’s a day to travel ish, maybe it’s two days, maybe it’s a day of prep, right? And kind of, you know, eight or nine hours of content, maybe your formulas four so, so it’s four times 20. That’s 80, 80 days of a calendar. And, you know, that’s, that’s a lot of time. But that could be you looking at saying 20 keynotes equals 80 days. Okay, that’s just about a quarter of my working days. That means I’ve got 25% of time and revenue dedicated to the 20 keynotes, what am I going to do with the other 75? or How can I compliment it, maybe you start out with, I want to do 60 keynotes, maybe you want to because you want to get there, you start at 20. And then you get to 40, get to 60, or five year plan, whatever it is, I’m a math guy, like one of my minors was math. So I always look at it so mathematically and say, How am I going to spend my time? And how do I want that pie graph to look, as I’m building out my repertoire of skills.

Tim McDonald 16:04
Now that’s very good, very good. You mentioned Dorie Clark as one of the people on so I’m just going to curious, I it sounds like you’ve had influences and people that have helped you along the way. What had been your biggest resources for, you know, really evolving and growing your business?

Dan Pontefract 16:27
resources? From a resource perspective, I think being first of all, a an autodidact. And a ridiculously Cur-curious person has helped me in my sort of lifelong journey. definition. And that That, to me is everything about who I am today, I am ridiculously asking questions about people about process about how tos about how did theys. And all of that goes into my head plus Evernote and I kind of attack it, I tact I write down a lot of little pointers. So I may, you know, someone, someone sends me a TED talk, and I’ll look at it just to see style content, you know, storytelling, what have you, if I were kind of talking about speaking here, when I’m at, if I’m asked to speak at a conference, you know, I’ll try to be there for the speaker before or the bit of the speaker after to get to see and hear and feel and smell what that style is like, both the good and the bad, and a sense of what I would do what I wouldn’t do, right, the good for me, the bad for me, because my style is one that’s different, but I could learn and maybe hone in a little bit. So there’s particular people that have done an incredible job of just speaking. And I’ve learned from that, and I again, whether videos are face to face. But similarly, you know, whether it’s Dory, or lots of great folks that have done the incredible job of building up the repertoire of options, I find, I find like I’m no one when I look at them and see what they’ve done. But that said, it’s pushes me and kind of my continuous addiction to improving myself to see well look at how they’ve done it. Maybe I could do that this way. Another dear friend, and example is Michael Bungay Stanier. So he author of the coaching habit and the advice trap. So Michael and I go back longer than you and I probably to 2010, probably 10 years now. And MBS, as he’s affectionately known, as you know, helped build up a company called Box of Crayons that helps people essentially become better versions of themselves. It was kind of a learning and development company and then it turned into a kind of leadership development and a coaching company. And he built this up from nothing, all the while writing I think he’s at his six books now. And also speaks and facilitates and and builds out these learning modules and it’s just he’s I’m in awe of Michael and his ability to build out the repertoire all the while being an engaging and funny Yeah, heartfelt speaker when he’s on stage. So I think we’re I look at myself as being in the vortex and shadows of the doors and Michael’s learning from them and trying to find ways in which to weave that into what I’m what I’m doing.

Tim McDonald 19:28
Now. I can’t believe our time is just flying by but one question I had before we kind of get into wrapping up is knowing everything that you know now. And I you know for most people I can say go back to when you started speaking but I know you started probably back when you were in your teens. So back when you were like kind of in the corporate world getting ready to think about launching on your own. What advice would you give yourself that you know now to that younger self of Dan

Dan Pontefract 20:03
What a great question I would, if I’m looking back at myself and saying, if you were to do it differently, okay, here’s the best way I would describe this is the audience is like a classroom. And when you’re a teacher in the classroom, unfortunately, you’re not always going to reach everyone. And whether it is a personality thing, or it’s a learning thing, or it’s a distraction thing, or it’s just, I’m an interested in you thing, or the content. Inevitably, you will receive like I did as a as an educator, as a teacher, as a prof you receive evaluations. And when something happened with me, for some reason that I thought all of a sudden, now you’re in the corporate world, you’re in corporate conferences and events, the evals are gonna be smokin hot 99%. This guy’s awesome. Because he’s funny, he’s engaging. He’s on stage, look at his hats. Look at those shoes, what great shirts, like it’s a different, like, you’d kind of you do a little bit of a persona change, at least I do to pay homage to my my buddy Gore Downey, of the of the hip here in Canada. And what I recognized was that the audience is a lot like the classroom in that you are going to get all wild differences of opinion in the audience. And then when you kind of go back to the evals, you are going to get some haters. And the haters are like, this guy’s an idiot, why is he wearing a hat? You know, why is he telling me how to lead I know how to lead. And again, you can’t focus on the five or six or X number of negative Nellies that are out there. because that’ll that’ll get you weirded out. And unfortunately, Tim, I think I was weirded out for the first few years. Because I would get those and think, Oh, my God. And it wasn’t until two or three or four, maybe five years into sort of the circuit and conferences, etc. I realized you can’t please everyone, Tim, in an audience. And that’s okay. So that’s my, that’s my lesson to myself. If I was kind of looking back and speaking to a younger Dan,

Tim McDonald 22:25
well, thank you. And I know you have a new book out Lead, Care, Win. I’m just kind of curious, what was the kind of the inspiration or the thought for this book.

Dan Pontefract 22:37
I have one copy, Tim, a lead care when how to become a leader who matters is a book that it just, it sounds horribly pretentious and arrogant, but it had to be written. And the reason it had to be written was that I’ve just come across far too many organizations and employees and leaders whom have sort of somewhat somewhere along the way missed the plot on what leaders are supposed to be doing. And so there are nine behaviors that I make reference to in this book that resurrect this is nothing new, it resurrects what a more caring, empathic, concerning type of leader ought to be doing both leader of self and leader of others. And it just to me is one of those where we need to be more patient, we need to be better listeners, we need to build relationships and champion others, we need to be the Curiosity based individual, you know, we need to commit to balance with equity, diversity and inclusivity. They’re just it’s a book that is resurrecting all of the goodness that has come before us into a compact nine lesson, Field Guide to remind people how important is and what to do to sort of take them back to where it ought to be. LeadCareWin.com is easiest way to go find out about that book.

Tim McDonald 24:05
Well, fantastic. I’m looking forward to reading it because I just got my copy. So tell everybody where they can find that book and how they can get in touch and learn a little bit more about you.

Dan Pontefract 24:16
Yeah, well, thanks so much again, Tim. It’s a pleasure to be here. Again, you’re such a good friend. The the book itself is available anywhere. So it’s, you know, go online, visit a local bookshop, get them to order it if it’s not there for you. Love to support your independent bookshops. Yeah, lead care when.com. Best way to go there. From there, you can kind of get some BIOS about me and find out what I’m up to. And what I’m really excited about the first time I’m releasing an entire online leadership development program with the book. So it’s a it’s pretty compelling. There’s about an hour of core material for each of the nine lessons and then upwards of two hours of bonus material on each of the nine lessons and it’s It’s been a treat last three months putting this thing together. So looking forward to releasing that as well.

Tim McDonald 25:04
Well, thank you so much, Dan. And thank you for watching and tuning in with us today. Again, if you’re new to the show, one thing that we do is we stop the broadcast here in just a minute. So, but I have a special surprise for any of our email subscribers because Dan agreed to stay on with me and answer one additional question. So we’re gonna record that but not put it on YouTube. So if you want to get that information, head over to business dot speaking or speaking dot business, I’m sorry, I’m like the business of speaking show. But speaking dot business and sign up for our free weekly email newsletter and that’s where you will get this exclusive content. So thank you for for watching today. And thank you for joining us, Dan.

Dan Pontefract 25:51
Oh, so good of you Tim. Thanks, everyone.

 

• You probably have more speaking experience than you think 
• Learn from others and associations (like the National Speakers Association) 
• You can be shy and still be a speaker
• Have different verticals for income
• Experiment – It’s one of the great things about running your own business
• Understanding your time is an investment
• Network to build your business

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Who is Beth Granger?

Beth Granger is a trainer, consultant, speaker, moderator, emcee, and certified virtual speaker.

She loves helping people who are not comfortable with technology to embrace its power. She works with organizations and individuals who want to grow their business, fill their sales pipeline, and build their professional brand, all using LinkedIn.

Beth helps produce and facilitate engaging and interactive online networking events for American Business Associates and is a host of LinkedIn Local, a series of events designed to let attendees “meet the people behind the profiles.”

Every week, Beth broadcasts on LinkedIn Live to introduce interesting people to her broader network through ½ hour conversations.

You can always find Beth on Linkedin. Other places you can connect with her are on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook. 

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Below is the full transcript from the show. Please note that there may be some errors as it was auto transcribed using Otter.ai. (referral link that provides us with a 1-month Premium Pass

Tim McDonald 0:01
Well welcome everybody to the business of speaking show. I am your host, Tim McDonald. And today I am joined by one of my friends from that I connected with online. And then in person when I lived in New York for a short time where she still is Beth Granger. How you doing today, Beth?

Beth Granger 0:17
I’m doing well, thanks for inviting me.

Tim McDonald 0:19
Oh, I’m so grateful you’re here with us today. And for everybody that if you’re just tuning in for the first time, the business is speaking show really isn’t the focus on what the speakers talk about onstage. But really their journey on how they got to the stage, and what they’ve learned since they’ve been on the stage. So that, if you’re thinking about getting involved in speaking, are just starting in speaking, or as 2020 has taught us, no matter where you are on the path of a speaker, you never know what to plan for or expect with what happened this year. So it’s really, really for anybody that’s interested in speaking. So with that, Beth, I would love to ask you the first question that I love to ask all of my guests, which is, tell us your story of how you got started in speaking.

Beth Granger 1:10
So it’s funny, I actually looked back to see if I could figure out when my first official speaking gig was. And the funny thing is that I had this head trash as some people would call it. So I started doing some teaching. And then the first time somebody said, Hey, can you come do a talk for us do a speech for us? I said, Oh, I’m not a speaker. So there was some period of time where I was doing a lot of training, training people to use social media and other things like that, that I didn’t think of myself that way. And then I started doing things. I don’t know if it was even consciously where I would moderate a panel, or I’d be on a panel, or the, what I thought was training turned out to be more like a speech for an organization. And then that’s when I consciously said, Well, I want to do more of this, for many reasons, both that it helps bring, bring me clients that it can be something I can get paid for, as well. And I really enjoyed it. Which is funny, because somewhere in my head, I still think I’m shy. And maybe a lot of speakers are are shy, actually. But maybe I’m not. So I would say the first time that I did something that I thought of as speaking as opposed to training was 10 years ago was a conference and I was on a panel. And I loved it. So just sort of happened.

Tim McDonald 2:55
Yeah, it’s kind of interesting. I, you haven’t broken the streak yet. Not one person has said I want to grow up being a speaker. So far, I’m not gonna I’m not gonna jinx it, because I’m sure there is that one person out there that probably has. But I’m kind of curious, you know, did anything change in your thought process of when you were just doing like what you described as like these trainings and educational sessions, versus when you thought of it as being a speaker?

Beth Granger 3:23
I suppose I thought more about the business side of it. So you know, what tools do I need? What skills do I need? How much do I charge? All those kinds of questions? And, those were the main things to start thinking about it more as something that I did not just aside. thing to my basic business, though.

Tim McDonald 3:59
Yeah. And what what, um, I mean, I think this is great, because I think so many people getting started are, you know, like, don’t know where to go don’t know, you know, where they should turn. And so what resources Did you find back when you first started thinking of it as a business that really helped you turn it into a business?

Beth Granger 4:18
Sure. So the biggest one really was National Speakers Association. I happened to go to somebody’s book launch party where I met somebody and we were talking and I guess I’ve said what I was up to, and she said, You have to come. And so I came as a guest. and learned more in that one session that I could possibly implement, and loved the people and the energy in the room, and I’ve been a member ever since. So.

Tim McDonald 4:49
So NSA has definitely been a big resource for you.

Beth Granger 4:54
Absolutely. And then of course, there are a lot of people I didn’t do this Recently, but before way, before I ever thought of doing this, when I, before I had my own business, I looked at a company and they had a Toastmasters chapter at the company. And I did go. And I didn’t progress very far in the speeches because I just, I wasn’t comfortable with it. But I was doing talks or trainings or things within the organization that I wanted to be more comfortable with. So, you know, when you look back, there are times that, that you’ve done things, you know, it could be giving a toast, it could be giving a eulogy could be anything, where you’re speaking in front of a room.

Tim McDonald 5:41
Now, I think that’s a great point. And something that I’ve been thinking a lot about lately is this whole aspect of, you know, in business and in life, how many times we actually have to talk, but we don’t think of it as giving a talk. It’s just something that we do. And so, I’m, you know, I like to just kind of focus on the business side of, you know, in those early days, do you remember what was like some of the biggest takeaways for you that, you know, you didn’t really think about when it came to speaking and turning it into a business or anything that, you know, really just, you know, you found great value in that you were able to implement and see a big impact from?

Beth Granger 6:26
Well, I mean, there were little things there there. It’s even a matter of telling people that you do it. So if they don’t know that it’s part of what you do, how can they hire you? So adding it to my various social media profiles, talking about the times that I did do it so that other people would, would invite me to speak for their organization? In some cases, I’m a little like the shoemakers, kids, there were things that maybe I should have done, but didn’t. But yeah, all and and the tools, tools of the trade. So for instance, do I have a feedback mechanism? After I give a talk? Do I use slides? Do I not use slides and continual education really, about an experimentation to honestly I mean, look at look at what happened, I’ve always been doing things virtually, because I would do remote training. But there are plenty of speakers right now that with this whole COVID thing. Had to they only fit, you know, keynotes at big events. And so they’ve had to shift what they’ve been doing.

Tim McDonald 7:41
Yeah, no, I know. Well, I know, because we obviously met through social media. And so I know that you’ve been doing live live streaming for a long time. And it was it is something I think and that’s, you know, one of the reasons why I started this whole thing was I started realizing how it was impacting everybody so differently, and businesses were so different, it was fascinating to me to learn, and talk with different speakers. So as you look at your business, you know, today and I, I’ve kind of always preface this, I can’t believe we’re, you know, more than halfway through 2020. Now, but, you know, looking back, maybe before, you know, if, if COVID has affected you this year, you know, looking at your business the last year or two? What, how is your business kind of made up? Like, what role does speaking play in it? And how does it, you know, integrate with the rest of your business?

Beth Granger 8:34
That’s a great question. Um, I don’t know what percent it is. But a huge amount of what of what I do is training, consulting, that type of thing. So, but that is speaking, so whether I’m in front of a room or on the zoom screen, working with people that is speaking, and I’m being paid for it, so it’s business, the more traditional type of speaking where I’m the entertainment at an event or the speaker at an event? I would say that’s less of what I do, but it is a part of it. And what’s wonderful for me, and what’s been very helpful, especially during this time, is that I have those different verticals. So I’m not relying on just one area.

Tim McDonald 9:24
Right? And have you have you looked in, you know, at or evolved into some of your trainings being like, and I don’t I’m, I’m asking because I honestly don’t know. Like, I like either, you know, courses that people can take on, you know, books that you have out any of those types of additional kind of resources that might provide some revenue, even though it might not be the majority of it.

Beth Granger 9:51
Absolutely. I mean, one of the things I love about having my own business is I can be very nimble. If I get an idea I can try it. I can express it. So, last fall, I had a number of people that wanted to work with me one to one, but couldn’t make the investment. So I said, Okay, I’ll do a group. And, you know, a big company would take them two years to put a group together. So So now I do groups. I’m also, building hasn’t been launched yet. I’ll let you know what it is. But I’m building a membership program. And I’m really excited about that. So, yeah, I haven’t written a book, I think if I do ever write a book, it may not have anything to do with what I do for a living and maybe a novel or something. So we’ll see.

Tim McDonald 10:37
Okay. So you bring up an interesting thing about being nimble and being able to test things and try things. And I know from, you know, basically, you know, working for myself for so many years, like you’re you, it’s, you know, one of these things sometimes where even if it might not cost us a major investment, it still cost us a lot of our time, which is an investment. How do you how do you know when you have an idea, because I know we all have plenty of ideas, which ones you are going to move forward with and which ones you’re not?

Beth Granger 11:13
And that is a great question. If I had the answer for that, it would be a wonderful thing. I, I actually recently participated in a brainstorming session, somebody that I know, an amazing sales trainer named Jeff Goldberg, did a brainstorming session with our networking group, to help people come up with a list of things they could do to make money now in this these changed times. And the thing was, I had this list, and some things already were on my list, right things I could possibly do. How do you decide which ones to do? I don’t have an answer for that. Sometimes, for instance, I go live on LinkedIn. I’ve been doing that for about a year. And it takes a lot of time. But I love it. Somebody said to me recently, you know, you could turn that into a podcast because you could take the audio recording and it could become a podcast? And I said, Yes, I could. But I don’t want to, because I’m aware of that being a whole separate focus that I would need to do I need to edit it, I need to promote it. So I’m not doing that. Now, if something is quick to do, and is only my time, I’m more likely to try it, or experiment with it, then something that, you know, would take months and lots of money.

Tim McDonald 12:38
Now, that’s it’s great. No, I don’t think there is a magic answer for any of us out there. But it’s refreshing to hear that. And I’m just, you know, you you earlier, you had mentioned about you know, when you started about what you should charge, and I’m sure over the 10 years your rates have changed? How do you know when it’s the right time to change your rates?

Beth Granger 13:06
That’s another one. I don’t know if I have a good answer for I do know someone that said to me, if three people in a row, don’t push back on your rates, it’s time to raise them. I don’t necessarily do that. Pricing is definitely not my area of expertise. So, you know, when it comes to traditional speaking, even though you know not, we’re not supposed to talk about it within, for instance, NSA, there are sort of ranges, right, you just know ranges that people charge for things. So another experiment, I guess?

Tim McDonald 13:50
And do you ever doubt yourself when you’re going through that? Or is there any thoughts going through your head about you know, man, I, I know I should probably do this, but I just, you know, for me at least sometimes it’s that rejection, you don’t want to be rejected, you know?

Beth Granger 14:05
Um, I’ve definitely gotten that when when I first started my business. So 10 years ago, I couldn’t say an amount of money that I couldn’t personally afford to pay. Which made no sense. But it was just one of those things. I did get okay. It’s important to do that. But no, I think I think we all second guess ourselves and probably asked for too little. I’m sure I could ask for more. Maybe next time I will. Here that future clients.

Tim McDonald 14:41
So get in now. So as you as you’ve looked at, you know, really, you know, what you’ve done and I know you do a lot on LinkedIn, you know, how has, you know, your marketing process worked to help get More business. I know, you know, obviously, probably those LinkedIn videos help with that. But what other ways are you really finding, you know, are really working for you to kind of generate that referral machine for you?

Beth Granger 15:14
Well, I, I do a lot of networking. And in fact, before I started my business, I didn’t even really know what it was. And I was invited, thinking I was looking for a new job invited to a networking group, and they knew I was starting the business before I did. So strategic networking and referral relationships and collaboration. Yeah, and for social media, all the different types of marketing things.

Tim McDonald 15:45
You know, and networking, I think is so important. And I mean, that’s how you and I obviously met, you know, so I’m just kind of curious, you know, when you were invited there, right? How, and obviously, that seemed to work out for you. How did you then decide what other types of networking groups? How did you find them? How did you kind of, you know, understand where you should be, you know, spending your time because obviously, networking is another investment that we make with our time.

Beth Granger 16:15
I think in the beginning, because I thought I was looking for a job not starting a business, I went to a lot of things, just anything I found I would go to. And I was very lucky that I went to that one. But when I did, that I went too early on, because I just could see the difference between that and some of the other places I had been so and I’ll still experiment, you know, I’ll often as a guest to other people’s networking groups, I’ll speak to networking groups, things like that. And you just know, I think, whether it’s something about the people or the conversation, and

Tim McDonald 17:00
so there’s no again, no magic formula for it. It’s just trial and error and seeing which ones resonate with you and which ones don’t?

Beth Granger 17:07
Yes. And I mean, you know, if you’ve gone into a rolling official networking event, and there are people shoving their card in your face, and expecting you to give them referrals, you don’t even know them yet. But that’s not the kind of place you probably want to spend your time.

Tim McDonald 17:25
Well, as we kind of get towards the end, I always like asking this question, um, knowing what you know. Now, if you were to go back and give yourself one piece of advice, when you first started, what would it be?

Beth Granger 17:46
Just do it. I think I hesitated along the way and didn’t do something that I knew would help my, my speaking business. Let’s do it.

Tim McDonald 17:58
I think that’s great. We could probably just done the mic drop right there. Do it. So no, thank you so much for spending time with us today. But then how can people find you? How can they get in touch with you?

Beth Granger 18:12
Ah, so for some LinkedIn linkedin.com, forward slash in forward slash Beth Granger, and I have a website, but honestly, I don’t really use it. So feel free to email me. And you’ll find me on LinkedIn. It’s the easiest place.

Tim McDonald 18:31
Sounds good. Well, thank you so much for being our guest today. And thank you for watching. And if you have not seen any of our episodes before, we sign off of YouTube, but my guest agrees to stay on with me, which Beth has graciously agreed to. And I’m going to ask her one additional question. This content is only going to be available not through our YouTube channel, but for our email subscribers. So if you head over to speaking dot business, and just sign up for our weekly email list, there’s no cost to do that. You will be getting exclusive content that Beth is going to share with us right now. So thank you so much for joining us.