• You never know who’s life you are going to change when you share your story
• You don’t know what you don’t know 
• There are 64,000 events in North America every day
• The speaking business used to be a shark eat shark industry – today there are coaches and mentors that can cut your learning by 1/2 or 2/3 
• A speaking business is a business – it takes a lot of work and patience
• Never give up – No matter what state stay the course

If you have trouble viewing the video, check it out on YouTube. Be sure to subscribe to our YouTube Channel and get notified when new shows are added. 

Who is Orly Amor?

Business Coach for Public Speakers and Entrepreneurs, Public Speaker, Networking Expert, and Bestselling Author

Orly is a successful entrepreneur who has started five companies. As a corporate trainer, bestselling author, and international public speaker she has helped over 200,000 entrepreneurs around the world maximize their bottom line by tripling and
quadrupling their sales.

Orly Amor always enjoyed speaking and helping people change their lives and impact their
circle of influence wherever they go. She was in Property Management for 25 years where she
quickly established herself as a Subject Matter Expert; publishing two books on the subject and
speaking on numerous occasions, but she did not feel that she was having an impact.

In 2006, Orly was asked to speak at a women’s shelter on her life experiences and originally declined the invitation. After being invited several times she finally relented and agreed to speak. It was there she met a woman who wanted to end her life. After hearing Orly speak the woman decided to live and asked Orly to support her. This was the impact Orly was looking for.

Since then, Orly dedicated her life to impacting the lives of 200,000,000 people by helping them
realize their own mission-based goals and dreams. Her extensive experience as a Certified
Behavioral Analyst has made her indispensable as a coach to many influential corporate leaders.

Orly speaks three languages fluently and has earned her MBA and Law Degree. Despite the
impressive education and success as a business woman, Orly remains remarkably humble, authentic and a very engaging speaker.

In addition to being a great public speaker herself, and a great networker for the past ten years, she has helped Public Speakers and Entrepreneurs create their Business Model for Public Speaking. Her gift is to show them how to monetize their craft by taking it seriously and having what she calls “Business in A Box for Public Speakers.” Thereby teaching them how to fish.

Orly recently Published a Book called ‘Public Speakers, You’re Not All That’ – 12 Reasons Why
Event Planners Won’t Hire You, that became an instant Bestseller. Now available on amazon.
In a Nutshell, Orly Amor Delivers!

Quick question: do you want to get more speaking gigs this year and fill your calendar for 2021
and beyond? If so, you need to get registered for this amazing 5 Day Virtual Speaker
Challenge – It is The Fastest and Easiest Way to Launch and Grow a 6 Figure Public
Speaking Business in Just 1 Year Whether you are Just Starting or a Seasoned Speaker.

• Are you tired of trying to figure it out all on your own and want someone to actually show
  you what to do without beating around the bush?
• Are you tired of getting very little or no responses from Event Planners and feel like it’s
  just too much work?
• Are you still working on Publishing your Book thinking it will get you more paid speaking
  gigs?
• Are you still working on Your Brand or Website thinking you even need one?
• Do you have a great message and you just want to share it with the world?
• Are you tired of speaking for Free or for No Fee and want to be paid your worth?
• Do you want to learn how to get 250 Gig Leads in 5 Days?
• To learn all that and so much more you must Register here!

So, join Orly Amor on the 5-day Virtual Speaker Challenge.

You can find Orly Amor on her website and email her at Orly at OrlyAmor.com or by calling or texing Orly at 917-515-6803.

•  

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Below is the full transcript from the show with Ayelet Baron. Please note that there may be some errors as it was auto transcribed using Otter.ai. (referral link that provides us with a 1-month Premium Pass

Tim McDonald 0:03
All right, well welcome everybody to the business of speaking show. I am your host, Tim McDonald, and today joined by my special guest, Orly Amor. How’re you doing?

Orly Amor 0:13
I’m great. Thank you for having me.

Tim McDonald 0:15
Oh, no, I’m so glad to have you here and can’t wait to dive into your story a little bit more. But, you know, just to set the stage for anybody watching, you know, the business speaking show is not really a show that we feature speakers, and what they talk about on the stage, but really about how they got started on their journey to the stage, what they’ve learned along the path to get being on the stage. And so if you are thinking about getting involved in a speaker, you know, you are a speaker, just getting going and want to really grow your career, or as 2020 has taught us, no matter what we think we know about what’s happening, things can change on an instance notice. So it’s really for anybody in the speaking industry or interested in the speaking industry, but really geared towards those either thinking about getting started, or just getting started. So with that, before we dive into the beginning of your story, why don’t you tell us a little bit about, you know, what your career looks like? Now, what you talk about some of the major accomplishments that you’ve had?

Orly Amor 1:19
Well, that’s a loaded question. But thank you for asking. Well, a lot of things have happened. And I know as much as not everybody has been ready for what happened with COVID. This year, I got busier, on on the speaking circuit as virtually as well, as I published a book in 2019, called public speakers, you’re not all that 12 reasons why event planners won’t hire you, I had interviewed 3400 event planners that pay speakers for that book. So it’s a major accomplishment. And it can help everyone in anyone today and tomorrow and for many years to come. And I’ve also spoken virtually to an event that was International, that was really cool. It was a nine and a half hour event. And it was in 115 countries and 30 million people were watching. So I feel like that’s a big accomplishment. And I mean, it’s been just an amazing journey, meeting a lot of speakers who are getting out there, and just really amazing stuff is happening. So I’m closer to my goal of impacting the lives of 200 million people around the planet by 2025. So I’m really excited about that.

Tim McDonald 2:36
That is wonderful and amazing. So congrats on everything that you’re doing, and getting closer to that goal.

Orly Amor 2:44
Oh, purpose.

Tim McDonald 2:47
So tell us, you know, now that we know kind of where you’re at and what you’ve You know, you’re done and where you’re heading. Tell us how did this all start for you? How did you get involved in actually speaking?

Orly Amor 2:59
Well, I was in property management for a very long time. And I was already speaking in that realm. And I never really wanted to tell my personal story. And one day, my girlfriend asked me to speak at a woman’s shelter. And I said, Well, what do you want me to speak about I? There’s nothing I could speak to these people about them in property management. She said, Well, I want you to come and tell your story. Long story short, she was after me for about three weeks. And finally I relented, and I spoke at this woman’s shelter. A few months later, I had her I had hired a coach, because motivational speaking was not my thing. I was following Tony Robbins and other people, but it was for my own healing and my own growth, not to speak. And it was very funny and not funny. But Haha, kind of funny. It was more the fact that I met a woman that wanted to end her life that day. And after hearing me speak, she decided to live and asked me to show her how that’s when I realized the power of sharing your own story. And just to sharing with you where I have been, or where my story is, in 18 seconds or less. I know we’re pressed for time. But I was a big enough child that was molested four times before the age of 14, I was raped three times before the age of 22. Twice gang raped nine months left for dead nine months apart. Also, I was married to a very abusive husband. And as a result of all that I had four abortions and gained a moment more than the amount of weight I was 428 pounds with my heaviest. So to say the least I did not have any worse or better story than anyone that was in that audience. And that’s why I didn’t feel like sharing my story was a big deal. And so then I realized how powerful is it to share our story. And in that act of sharing their contribution. You just never know whose life you’re going to change. And then I realized my real mission in life is to impact people’s lives and share with the world. So that’s where it’s at. If you will, I wanted to just do that for the rest of my life.

Tim McDonald 5:05
Now, that is so amazing. And I believe in that so much myself about the power of story and how we share our own and how it can impact others. So it’s great that you had that moment. I’m kind of curious, I’m guessing, I don’t want to I hate it, you know, assuming things but I’m guessing that that speaking gig probably didn’t pay you.

Orly Amor 5:28
That speaking gig did not pay me. And but we talked but I was always paid on the property management side. And then I got I got certified as a behavior analyst, and I was teaching networking in corporations. And I was also teaching in corporations how to close the deal 98% of the time through profiling. So that was my those are more my biggest topics. And then mindset mastery became another topic. And for those I’ve always been paid. So for many, many years, I have always been paid to speak until 2010. I was invited to speak in Arlington, Texas. And I’m, by the way, I have been to 26 countries, 18 states, and I’ve always been paid to speak. So this is a journey of where I ended up speaking in Arlington, Texas. And it was a big convention, a business convention. And these three speakers came over to me in the break room for speakers. And they just said, aren’t you Orly Amor? I said, Yes. Do I know you? I’m sorry. I don’t remember. They said, No, we we never met before, but we’ve seen you on the circuit. I said, Oh, okay, great. So we just introduced ourselves started networking, and at 1.1 of them said to me, I’m just curious, how did you get this gig? I said, I don’t know. I called I told them what I speak about, they paid me and I’m here. They all looked at me. Like if I had three heads, you got paid off like, oops, um, you guys didn’t. They said, No, we got our expenses paid. But we net we didn’t get paid. I said, Oh, no, no, I got paid. And I got my expenses paid. And they said, Well, we want to know how you did that. And jokingly I sorted Tim, I didn’t even know what to say. But jokingly I said, Well, you know, if I tell you, I’m going to have to charge you. But I was just kidding. And before I could say Just kidding. We said okay, maybe your price. And I’m like what? Let me get back to you on that. Because I have no idea what you’re talking about. What do you mean, you didn’t get paid? I was so upset, actually. Because I am more about a fairness. And I didn’t know until them you know, you don’t know what you don’t know. Until that moment. I did not know that speakers did not get paid. That was my What? What do you mean? Do it like aha moments, right. And when I went home from that event, I realized there’s a problem in this industry. And I sat down and I wrote what is called today the business in a box for public speakers, because I did not know that people did not get paid.

Tim McDonald 8:01
Wow. Oh, as somebody who started my speaking career, almost 11 years ago, I have done my fair share of not getting paid speaking, especially in the early days.

Orly Amor 8:17
And there’s so many like that. And some of them are told not to not to get paid in the beginning of their career. I don’t believe that. I’m sorry to say it that way. But I don’t believe that it’s a myth. There’s a few myths out there. I just don’t I believe that if you have a message, somebody is willing to pay for it. A few statistics, it’s 100 billion dollar a year industry. Why wouldn’t you get paid 64,000 events a day in America alone, Canada and the United States pay speakers every single day? And they did not vanish? Because of covid 19. So where did they go? Right? Everybody’s probably asking that question.

Tim McDonald 8:58
Well, let’s get back to that. But I’m kind of curious. Because I’m, I just want to make sure I understand the timeline here. You were in property management. And you did give some talks and and, and so but those weren’t, they were paid. But were you getting paid as the property manager and your salary or getting paid with the from the events that you were speaking at?

Orly Amor 9:19
No, I was paid from the events that I was speaking at. So I had a company for property management, but it was I had employees and so that was taken care of, then I was being called by different associations all over the country. That’s how I did the 18 states because people knew who I was. And I changed the law in the state of Florida. I mean, I did many amazing things in the property management field, that I was being called to speak in different places. And I wrote a couple of books on the subject matter and yeah, so no, I was being paid very handsomely. Thank you.

Tim McDonald 9:52
Well, that’s good. That’s great. Um, so I’m just kind of curious when you know, how did you get that first opportunity to To speak on, you know, back in those days, I mean, what was it like? And I mean, did you search it out? Knowing that’s what you wanted to do? Or was? Did somebody just come to you and say, Hey, we’d really like you to come speak or leave?

Orly Amor 10:12
So that’s a great question. Because many people say, used to ask me to follow me for one day. And I would tell them that that would be the most boring day of their life in the old days, because in the old days, we had to pick up the phone and call cold call. So I used to sit at my, at my desk, almost 12 to 16 hours a day making phone calls cold calling, and emailing. I mean, it was all very old stuff. You know, I mean, really old computers, we used to use Lotus 123. In the days that I started speaking, do you know how old I am? 53. So

Tim McDonald 10:49
I remember that, too. So I think we’re in the same room.

Orly Amor 10:54
Nice. So, um, you know, in the, in those days, it was a lot harder to find gigs. But there were also fewer speakers. Things have changed. But yes, I had to do it myself manually and find out everything by myself. In the beginning, it was very, very challenging, because I had to learn everything on my own, nobody would teach you nobody would share their information in you know, just like they used to call corporate world, you know, sharks, the shark, you know, being sharks in corporate? Well, it was it’s the same in any event wasn’t the same in every industry, nobody would share their information. Nobody would help you in anything you want to make you want to make it in this business good. Go find out how to do it by yourself, nobody’s going to help you. It’s not like today, when we have coaches and mentors and people, you can actually help you learn the, you know, cut the curving the learning curve in half or two thirds, etc.

Tim McDonald 11:57
So how did you know before you started making those calls for 12-16 hours a day? I mean, how did you know this was what you wanted to do?

Orly Amor 12:05
Um, I fell in love with public speaking. I think in the beginning, it was more of an ego thing. I just enjoyed the rush of being on a stage and, and, and enjoying people coming afterwards and telling me how great they are, how important it was that they came and how, how much they got out of it, or how good I did. It was fun to hear that it was beating it was boosting my morale. Because, you know, in property management, especially, I used to get off the stage and like, Oh, Mr. Moore, we have problems in our associations or not in our board of directors, there’s always one person that doesn’t do doesn’t want to vote and doesn’t want to do and Bob, I was always problems, problems, problems. And then I go to this women’s shelter, and everybody’s hugging me and thanking me for coming. It was such a culture shock that I was like, No, I think I like the hugs better. I think I like that. The people hugging me and thanking me for coming and sharing. I think I want to do that more. There was just bad really, that I knew that I wanted to be in front of a crowd. I like to sing. So I was like, okay, public speaking just gives you the same height, I think I’m gonna like enjoy this too.

Tim McDonald 13:18
Now, that’s, that’s wonderful. And I’m just kind of curious. I mean, you make it sound like it, you know, it was obviously a lot of work. But it You make it sound like it was just so natural and easy for you to kind of get these gigs, obviously, by making all these calls. Can you give us an idea about you know, what was the process like from when you first started making those calls to actually getting, you know, speaking gigs and, you know, really feeling the results of what you were looking to achieve?

Orly Amor 13:50
I would tell you that the first three months, I just wanted to shoot myself. Because at the end of the three months, I did not get anything, I was really just making a lot of calls and a lot of people would not get back to you and a lot of people will, you know will say oh, well how long have you been speaking and I would have to say a year you know, it was very hard. In the beginning. I didn’t know what to say. And I didn’t know how to talk and I didn’t know how to deal with rebuttals. So it was everything to learn as you go. Okay, so next time Let me try this thing or let me try this script. And let me tell you so it’s, it’s like you you you know, you’re a friend of mine really likes it. His name is Benji, he likes to to talk about the boxer in the ring. You know, like if he ever started just boxing. He would learn after having a black guy how to move his head so he doesn’t get another black guy right. Basically, you learn as you go, but learning the hard way. This is what happened to me. I learned how to tweak my script how to how to deal with rebuttals, how to answer positively how to build those relationships and how to never close the door and never hang up saying Oh, okay, thank you. Bye bye. No, it wasn’t never thank you. When, when, when is your next event? What can I How can I get on your list? How can I? How can I continue this conversation and I have to basically just ask the questions and being vulnerable with these events lenders, so that I can learn from them instead of being the beggar for a gig. And that is how I learned and how I tweaked. So the first three months of 12 to 16 hours a day, were many, many calls where I did not even know what I was doing. But after a while, I got some gigs. And I did get some gigs during those three months, but they were for later. So now what, and then I didn’t ask for the deposit. And I didn’t ask for certain things. And then they would ask me for something and I didn’t have it. And when I sent it, it wasn’t in the right format. And oh, my goodness, then I was, Oh, well, what do I do now? Like, where do I get that? And so it took a while. And so when people now ask me to show them or do it for them? It’s like, Okay, do you understand how much work goes into? Right? I mean, not sure I learned it overnight. It didn’t take long at all. No, it was a lot of work. And so this business is really a business. And that’s what people need to understand. Really, it does take a while. And you got to have patience, though. Because I’m sorry, I’m gonna say it this way, but you don’t sleep with every person you meet. You know, you don’t go on a first date and say, Okay, well, unless it’s your thing. But at the end of the day, you got to build that relationship, the know, like trust and, and get to know people a little better on a on a deeper level before you get into this relationship, that it’s your friendship even right? You don’t call everybody your friend, because they’re not you don’t know anything about them. So it’s the same principle.

Tim McDonald 16:52
Well, I so appreciate you opening up and sharing that because I am not a believer in an easy button that everybody has this overnight success. And I, I want people to understand that there’s work that goes into this. I’m kind of curious about your mindset, though. Because three months of 12 to 16 hours a day of making calls, how did you go through each day and get up the next day and say, This is what I’m gonna do again, and again, and again.

Orly Amor 17:27
buckling down is not easy. Not even for me, I’m ADHD, like, I need to get up and do and, and I lived in a beautiful house that has a pool. And the fridge was not far, it wasn’t the hardest thing I’ve ever live in Florida. So you can only imagine how much I wanted to go outside by the pool. Um, and I say I say this with love, because you understand now how even harder it was. You see, I live in Brooklyn now. So it’s easier to say, Oh, yeah, sure. I don’t want to go outside. But it was in a very beautiful place. And I will tell you that you have to have a focused mission. And my focused mission was to impact people’s lives. If it wasn’t for my mission, then I don’t think I would have made it. I’m like, do I really want to do this? How badly do you want this early every morning? How badly do you want to get on stages early? How badly do you want this early? I have to talk to myself every day in the mirror. So do you want to do this? You’re sure you want to do this? Are you sure? How Sure. are you today? How are you sure? Is it 90%? Is it 80%? You better get to 100 really quickly or else you’re not gonna sit in that chair. And I used to really talk to me, this is how I used to mindset talk to myself. Yeah, like people talk to me and say, you talk to yourself. Yeah, I talk to myself, I like to talk to someone intelligent for a change. I’m just kidding. But you know, like, of course, I’m going to tell myself that you better buckle down. You can’t be any better a coach than yourself. Because you can have 100 coaches right now, and you should have coaches. But at the end of the day, you’re the only one that’s gonna push yourself out of bed and get ready for the day. Oh, and by the way, I never worked in my pajamas. I never I got up, I did the shower. I got dressed. My hair was done makeup on beautiful clothes on, like, and I sat at the chair, like if I was going to an office. And I didn’t like every day was like, Okay, is there a camera following me? I do that for other projects that even today, if I have a project, I’ll get up and do exactly that and feel like there’s a camera following me. What if I was on TV for 24 hours? What would they say? What would they see? Am I doing what I’m supposed to be doing for my goals? And that’s how I treated myself every single day. It was hard. I’m not going to tell you it was easy. That’s for sure. It was not. It was a battle every day. It’s a going on diet. Oh mg. I mean I lost 230 pounds. I get value. It was like doing that. It was like, oh, Lord, every day, it’s a, it’s a struggle. It’s it’s a, it’s a commitment. It’s a big commitment to yourself, it’s even worse, because it’s a commitment to yourself, you can actually cheat anytime you like, you can do whatever, whenever nobody’s You know, there’s not a clock on you. There’s no Boss, I didn’t have a boss. You know, I didn’t need to do it. If I didn’t want to, I could have just not done it. I had the money to sustain myself. I mean, basically, if I wanted to do just go back to property management, but I said no, no, no, don’t want to go to property management ever again. No, no, no, I don’t want to work. That was work. Imagine that. That was work, instead of sitting at a computer for 12 to 16 hours and making phone calls. That was not work. Oh, boy, I had to really convince myself this is it? That’s that’s the fashion, you know?

Tim McDonald 20:53
Well, I know, you mentioned that. A lot of this, especially when you first started was you having to learn on your own because there wasn’t additional resources out there. along your path. Have you found other resources or other ways that you can learn from others and, you know, take ideas and continually kind of evolve and improve your business.

Orly Amor 21:18
Um, the time that I was already successful, and by successful is multiple, six figures in this business, I had people coming to me. So the resources were just, if you will have already cut the learning curve. So I already reduced my 12 to 16 hours to about two hours a day. So at that point, I didn’t feel like I needed other resources. What I, when I really say to people is now that there’s resources, there’s everywhere resources. But what is not available until today is your commitment to this business. It is a business. And thinking of it as a business, Tim is I’d like to give the analogy of a store like you and I are best friends, right. And we have an amazing friend who’s a real estate agent, and she found us the best location for our brick and mortar store. So we’re going to need the the key to the front door, we’re going to need the Hours of operation on the door, we’re going to need the name of the store on top of the door. When we go inside, we might need an alarm system or a camera system a cash register one of those computers iPads for for processing credit cards, we’re going to need insurance and maybe a liability insurance, a bank account, and we’re gonna hire a bookkeeper because you and I don’t like to do that job. Okay. But did I tell you what we’re selling? No. That’s the business of public speaking because the product is you. So if you don’t have the commitment to your own store, are you going to open every day? Are you going to open it for two hours? Three hours, four hours? What do you What’s your operating hours? Really? So if that’s that’s the business side, if you if you don’t understand that you will never make it in this business? Because that commitment is daily, not? Oh, I don’t know. I feel like doing it today. Maybe tomorrow? Or maybe they’ll call me. Yeah, no, not today. People won’t call you. Weird. You know what I mean? It’s, it has shifted so much. 10 years before COVID. And now completely. So 180?

Tim McDonald 23:24
Well, I know we’re kind of wrapping up on our time here. But one question I love asking it and I I’m really interested in what you would have to say on this is knowing what you know. Now, if you could go back to yourself when you first started. What’s one piece of advice that you would give your younger self?

Orly Amor 23:45
Never give up… Never give up. No matter what state stay the course. stay in your lane. stay the course. Because there’s a lot of naysayers and a lot of people that say what are you doing? Are you crazy? No. So many people say to me, come out with us. Go you never come out with us. You never come for a drink. You never come to you. You’re not even coming to my birthday lab, blah, blah. And I’m like, No, I’m sorry, I got to work. I got to work. I got to work whether I had a boss, no boss, whatever. I had to stay the course or else because those people will not live my dreams. Give me my dreams, you know, so just stay the course and stay focused. Never give up.

Tim McDonald 24:23
Oh, fantastic. Thank you so much early and please let our watchers know how they can get in touch with you where they can find you.

Orly Amor 24:34
All right. Basically Orly Amor dot com. Very simple. That’s my website, OrlyAmore.com. And they can also email me at Orly at OrlyAmor.com, and my phone number is right there so 917-515-6803 and they can text call anytime.

Tim McDonald 24:53
I love that you give your phone number out to I’m a big believer in that myself. Well, and if you’re watching, I just want to let you know that even though we’re going to end the youtube broadcast, Orly is agreed to stay on with me and record one additional question and that question won’t ever be found on YouTube. But it will be found if you sign up for our newsletter if you go to speaking dot business and just sign up for our weekly newsletter. This is exclusive content that only goes out to our email subscribers. So we hope to see you there. Thank you for watching and thank you for joining us Orly.

Orly Amor 25:32
Thank you for having me.

 

• When you put yourself in situations to get up in front of a room, it can lead to you becoming the speaker 
• You don’t have to intend on becoming a speaking if you have the ability and willingness to share your knowledge
• What people say to you after you talk can have a larger impact than what you say on stage
• If you like dialogue, workshops can be more rewarding than delivering keynotes  
• Being willing to talk from your heart also means you have to accept the fact you may not be invited back
• Relationships, trust and community are the new/old marketing

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Who is Ayelet Baron?

Author · Healer · Global Futurist

Through masterfully facilitated guided sessions, books and talks, Ayelet Baron assists people around the globe in their transition to living a healthy life. Recognized as one of the top 50 global female futurists by Forbes, she has been described as a force of nature when it comes to envisioning a more humane world. Her work has been inspired by futurist Buckminster Fuller, who reminds us that “We are called to be the architects of the future, not its victims.”

After a very successful career in the Silicon Valley as a global strategist working in every corner of the world, Ayelet chose to write the books she wished had when she started on her journey of becoming a conscious architect. Ayelet is passionate about driving sustainable change and being of service to the next generation of healthy creators. She now offers guidance to those who are ready to trek into the unknown through her writing, guided sessions and custom project work.

She is a designer + strategist dedicated to the evolution of the next generation of conscious leaders. Integrating humanities, behavioral science and evolutionary strategy, she envisions a world where people matter and business plays a greater role in societal value. She has worked with leaders within Fortune 100 organizations, leading NGOs and startups. Ayelet has been designing experiences, keynote speaking, and facilitating leadership sessions for decades and has worked in over 100 countries as a global technology executive.

What makes her approach unique, is her personal story of seeking the truth. To that extent, she has worked to gain clarity and ground herself in the reality of doing the right thing for herself and her community. She shares her story openly so others can learn from her lessons and apply it to themselves.

Ayelet was a strategic consultant to Genius 100 Visions, Inspired by Albert Einstein, a purpose driven community uniting 100 global Visionaries from the Chair, Astronaut Soichi Noguchi, to Colonel Chris Hadfield, Marc Benioff, Sir Ridley Scott, Sir Ken Robinson, Paul Allen, Paulo Coelho, and additional Visionaries. Ayelet was the Chief Strategy and Innovation Officer for Cisco, co-creating a strategy to take Canada to the second largest revenue country. She also helped the global mobile business in 2003, and held several positions in sales strategy around the world. Ayelet was the first Chief Diversity and Inclusion Officer for Cisco in Emerging Markets and also served on the IT Senior Executive team where she helped position IT as a strategic business partner. Prior to Cisco, she had a rich consulting background and also worked as a public opinion pollster.

You can always find Ayelet Baron on Linkedin, Twitter , and Medium. And don’t forget to check out her website where you can learn more about her books.

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Below is the full transcript from the show with Ayelet Baron. Please note that there may be some errors as it was auto transcribed using Otter.ai. (referral link that provides us with a 1-month Premium Pass

Tim McDonald 0:00
All right, welcome everybody to the business of speaking show, I am your host, Tim McDonald. And I am joined by my very dear friend, Ayelet Baron, how are you?

Ayelet Baron 0:10
I’m doing great look at look at where I am and my imagination.

Tim McDonald 0:16
But looks like you’re actually there. The wind blowing and the waves coming up on the beach all together at once. So for those of you who may not know, what the business is speaking show is it’s really a show where I have the opportunity to interview speakers, not on what they talk about on the stage, but their journey of how they got there, and what they’ve learned ever since. So, with that, getting started, let’s have you, Ayelet. I don’t think I’ve ever talked to you about this out of all the things we talked about. Tell us your story of how you got started speaking?

Ayelet Baron 0:50
Well, I think you don’t mean when I was two or three years old, right?

Tim McDonald 0:54
Not like language, but you know, like kind of getting up in front of people on stage who most of us talk about speaking in this industry.

Ayelet Baron 1:04
I know, but I can’t start something with you without a laugh. Um, for me, it was when I fired myself from my PhD program. And I started working in market research, doing a lot of public opinion polling in the beginning for the national newspaper in Canada, and then I decided to do a career transition and got into consulting around organizational change internal communication and culture. And I wasn’t getting everything I needed from my work. So I decided to join an industry association. And when I started, I didn’t realize that I would end up being the president of the association’s largest chapter. And it forced me every lunch, to introduce the speakers, and to get up and talk in front of a crowd. And as I started doing it, I soon transformed into being a speaker, both in Canada, and then internationally as well. So it was never kind of like an intention to do it. But it was just an ability to share information and and address things that I had a lot of knowledge about.

Tim McDonald 2:16
Yeah, it’s kind of interesting. That’s what I’m picking up a trend that nobody I think starts out Well, I shouldn’t say nobody, because I’m sure there’s gonna be somebody, it’s gonna surprise me, but almost nobody talks about it. I knew from the time I was very young, that I wanted to be a speaker and nothing else. So tell us, um, you know, what, what was it like? Um, because I know, you know, from my experience, at least, getting up in front of a group of people and, you know, introducing somebody else, or, you know, talking about a topic that’s work related in a meeting or something like that is much different, I think, than getting up in front of a stage where you’re the one where all the eyes are focused on and can you do you remember that first time that you did that? And what was that? What were you feeling? What was that? Like?

Ayelet Baron 3:10
I was feeling amazement, because for people who know me, they’ll be shocked to know that I was really shy when I was young. And I would have like to convince myself to go into a store and to buy something, it took a lot of courage for me to do those things. Because I was incredibly shy, I’m, you might be surprised that I was shy as well, Tim. Um, and so you know, the first step of getting up and introducing other people was to get over that terrifying fear of shyness that I had, about realizing that I have this voice. And the first time I was there, it was I was like, I was like watching myself and going, I can’t believe that, you know, we can really do what we set our minds to do and get over ourselves. And it was a really amazing experience. Not because I got up and to speak, it was because of the conversations I had afterwards. The people who came to engage with me, not while I was on stage, but afterwards and telling them what the talk did for them. And, you know, we got to co create after that, and doing that, like really early on. I also started doing a lot of workshops, I had a specialization in in metrics and measurement as well. And so we do a lot of workshops on that. And I actually enjoyed that a lot more because I got to have dialogue and to really listen to people’s questions rather than to stand on the stage and talk ironically, if I had completed my PhD, if I had done my dissertation, I would be standing in front of people teaching, which I had to do during, you know, my math when I served for my masters and my doctor as well. I was teaching so I was standing in front of people and talking but it was a very different experience. Have not feeling like I was the lecture I was the teacher and stepping into these big shoes that I felt that speakers have in the world.

Tim McDonald 5:10
Yeah, it’s interesting is, you know, I’m listening about the, you know, wasn’t so much what you said up on the stage, but what happened after you got off the stage? And how have you kind of used that, and, you know, had it work for you, so that you got more of that instead of just being, you know, the person that everybody is listening to?

Ayelet Baron 5:34
Well, I think, um, I remember, I’m a talk I did in, in Mexico, which is probably where this picture is, I don’t know, in front of 500 people, and I just, as I walked up to speak, my necklace, which was totally closed in a clasp fell into my hand, and I, you know, I had, I had the audio on, like, like you and I was ready to go on, there are 500 people there sitting in waiting, and all of a sudden my necklace like, and I had no time to pause and to say what has happened. And what I felt at that point, when I look back at it, it was like the universe telling me that was time to get my voice out. And when I took that stage, I just let myself go. And right afterwards, this guy came up to me and said, You know, I thought you were just going to be one of these other speakers that comes from a corporate background that’s going to tell me all this stuff. And I was sitting back and I was really skeptical. And then you started talking and I was just like, oh my god, she speaks my language, she’s talking about things that are relevant to me, I can relate to this. It’s not just like propaganda, or, you know, a canned speech or something. It’s really real. And it was interesting, he then followed up with an email. And I actually captured something that he wrote about fear in my book, our journey to corporate sanity. And so like from that, that little moment of that talk, I have something now that is part of a book that I wrote. And then he also was doing some work, and I helped him, you know, I didn’t charge him or anything, but I just worked with him on an idea that he had and connected him with people that I thought would be valuable for him. And I have so many stories like this, this is just like one example. But it’s it’s about being able to touch people in this way that really makes it important to me, rather than, you know, my the most popular speaker my the most loved or the most liked. It’s it’s about making an impact.

Tim McDonald 7:45
One and how has that kind of evolved, ever since that moment, when you had that realization for you.

Ayelet Baron 7:56
It actually freed me quite a bit. And I remember, I got invited to speak at this very conservative organization. And I asked them multiple times if they’re ready for me. And, and they said yes, but I didn’t realize that one of the reasons they invited me to speak as a futurist was to be a shock factor for their boss. And instead of like, I love the fact that I didn’t know it. And I could just really be factual and talk about things that are coming and things that people need to be aware of, and not be bound by the fact that, Oh, I’m getting paid for this. So I have to say what they want me to say. And, and being very clear that what I bring is very different than then what most people bring, because I don’t think we’re gonna shift unless we start saying what’s truly in our hearts. And I think that a lot of things that are really important is our ability to find our voice. And if my being up there encourages, you know, hundred, 200, 500 or one person to find their voice and to come into work the next day, and be able to be, you know, a more healthy person, then I’ve done my work. I may not be invited back again, but that’s okay.

Tim McDonald 9:22
Well, and I know, I know, just based upon some conversations that you and I have had that you have actually mentioned, and I don’t know if this whole still holds true or not, but that your goal was not to be a speaker and travel and get on stages. And so how do you have a speaking business? How do you get that message out? How do you connect with people if you’re not traveling and getting up on stages?

Ayelet Baron 9:46
Well, my dream has always been to be an author. And I actually went the other route. I became a speaker before before I started writing, and so I’ve been putting on a little bit of a pause For the last probably the last eight months, and really focusing on the writing and hoping that once my, my triplets, my book series comes out in the fall of 2020, then I could stop come in and speak again and again, the world has changed. So being able to do it virtually being able to do it, I’d love to, like have more dialogue, and and really take an issue and talk to people and understand what their problems and opportunities are. Because one of the things that I’m bringing into the world is, you know, we need to step away from the problem/solution mindset, and really move into opportunity creators. So once I get these books out, I’m going to be going out into the world and saying here, I’m available to come and talk about how we look at opportunities, how do we really lead in the 21st century, in a conscious way, and understand that leadership is not outside ourselves. So the second book is really about trekking into the unknown, and I’m living it in every possible way right now. So it would be great to come back on the show, you know, like a year from now and truly answer that question for you about what I did. Because right now, I’m super excited to just trek into the unknown. Without a manual without, you know, a lot of people just it’s kind of wonderful and crazy, a lot of people kind of find me in, you know, in working right now to figure out how to get these books out to the people that are ready for them, which is very non traditional, than just rather like getting out a book because I’ve written a book for the human soul. And so there’s not like, a cookie cutter way to get it out. And I think that will help me with partnership with people like you and other people out there, that we can get our messages out, which is why I love what you’re doing here. And believe in it. So I think again, you know, I I’ve been very blessed. I’ve worked in over 100 countries around the world. And you know, whether I got to speak as a as a business of you defining it, but I you know, when I was a corporate executive, I spoke a lot and company events and, and internally, and I guess I got paid for it because I was an employee. So I don’t know what your qualification is. But I’ve always been very bold and very fearless. Because I think that, you know, our time on earth is very precious. And we came here to really create. And and that’s what it’s all about. So a year from now, I might be able to answer your question, but right now, I’m tracking into the unknown, trusting my heart and discovering, you know, the wonder of me. So we can discover the wonder of everybody and really shift things on this planet in a really healthy way.

Tim McDonald 13:02
So I, you know, as, and I, by the way, I just, you know, I just love and adore all that and you. But I’m just, you know, as I’m listening, and I relate it to what I’ve seen and heard from so many others, if they’re talking about like, you know, if you’re a speaker, if you want to be a speaker, write a book, right? And I’m hearing you that you were a speaker, you’re not writing the book to get more speaking. But you’ve kind of put that on pause while you’re writing the book. But how does that? I mean, how do you kind of envision I know it’s unknown? And I know you don’t know exactly, but how is it kind of been like, you know, or what’s your thoughts on how that relates to, you know, how you market the book, right? How you get the book to more people through speaking, and how, how they book actually helps you get more speaking, because it sounds like in the past, you’ve always had opportunities that have presented themselves to you because of what you’ve done. And it sounds like that’s the same approach that you’re trusting yourself with moving forward.

Ayelet Baron 14:06
Yeah, I think I’ve been published quite a bit before, like, even my book, but because I was like really busy working in corporate, I didn’t have time to write the book. I was too busy working.

Tim McDonald 14:20
And wait, this isn’t work? writing a book is not work?

Ayelet Baron 14:25
It is the hardest work I’ve ever done in my life. And, and things are just coming out really quickly. But I think I think again, I’m not your traditional person. I don’t you know, I put down the manual of success. I’ve actually had a little burning ceremony of it as well. And, and I’m really looking at ways like, you know, I’m reaching out to people, and it’s amazing. I look at who I’m starting to connect with out in the world from a heart base and who I want to also work with And connect with the work that I’m creating. Because it’s not for everyone. You know, it’s not, it’s not something that will appeal to everybody, I’m really looking for the people that are and the companies that really want to look at opportunities and are willing to take risks and do things in a much healthier way than today. Because, you know, to me, the the most important app for the 21st century is humanity itself. And, you know, coming from a technology background and working on making companies incredibly successful, I realized that we have to get back to our humanity in how we treat ourselves and how we treat others. So yesterday, I had the most amazing conversation with someone who I never ever imagined I would connect with. And at the end of it, she said to me, just let me know, and we’ll do a we’ll do a podcast together. And if you want to get other people, let’s do it. And, you know, I’m being guided and advised to go find the influencers, and I’ve taken it to a different level of the people that are influencing the people that I know would resonate with the books, which is very different, because I’m not looking at it from an audience perspective. And I think that from a speaking perspective, I’m really starting to think differently about how I approach this, because I am not, you know, a billion dollar company that I worked for before I am, you know, just little old me here, a little speck in the universe. And so how could this, this, you know, tiny little person, get out there and be able to open hearts and minds that are ready to be opened or play with or, you know, like, you know, my dream is like that we get to play and create together? And because I don’t have your answers, because I don’t know you I was just writing about it this morning, or editing. You know, that, you know, we’ve got to stop telling people how to how to do things when we don’t know who they are. And we’ve got to really understand our power source. And so everything that I’m writing or putting in these books I’m practicing, and when I don’t, the universe kicks my ass, like you won’t believe. So. I think for me, the marketing pieces is really something that you and I have talked about a lot, which is relationships, trust and community. And being able to be trusted in someone else’s community is one of the things that I’m seeing is really important, rather than saying, oh, you’re an influencer, here’s my message, just put it out. It’s no, it’s like, how do our messages intertwine and interconnect, so we can have a bigger influence in the world. And I’m asking a question, like yesterday, I think I threw this person totally off when I said to her, how can I help you? And then it went quiet for like a like, a couple of seconds. And she said, You’re so sweet. I said, so what do you mean, she goes, Well, this calls about you? And I said, No, no, this calls about us, and what we can create in the world. And I think I think that’s the opportunity is when you know, this is what you’re doing Tim here, from what I see too is building community. And when more of us come together, and we don’t have to compete and we could lift each other up and say, Hey, I know somebody who’s great for this. And, and not feeling like I missed out of something because that’s that interconnectedness and support that we can create in the world. And we could write new stories. And that’s what I’m here for.

Tim McDonald 18:49
I one thing I think that I’ve been finding too, is it’s a common theme amongst everybody that I’ve talked to so far about just that support in that community and helping each other out. And it’s becoming more and more clear that it’s there. It just nobody really talks about it. You know, and I love being able to shed that light on that. And that’s why I’m not focused on like, all the blueprints and the, the secrets and you know, it’s more about Who are these people? How did they get involved in this? What have they learned along the way, so that anybody wanting to get involved can see that there’s not one path. It’s so diverse and so different. Um, so you know, if you could go back and knowing what you know now, and talk to your younger self when you’re first getting involved in speaking. What advice would you give yourself?

Ayelet Baron 19:47
Don’t wait so long to let your voice out. You know, I mean, I was on a on a call on Friday with a bunch of friends that I went to the Amazon rainforest with And one of them was telling me that she’s doing these webinars with, you know how to look appropriate on zoom. And, you know, she started going through all the steps. And then she looked at me at my little box, and she said, Now Ayelet, you should be doing blah, blah, blah. And I just looked at her and I said, Now, you know, me, and being appropriate, I said, I’m on the friends and family, zoom, I’m sitting on the sofa. I don’t, I don’t, you know, I’m, I’m not the appropriate one to bring in all the time. Because, you know, if, if some of us don’t start breaking the rules, when it makes sense. And when it’s healthy, not not just casually, then you know, we’re all going to be the same and how boring is that our education system already, you know, is failing, because it puts everybody in the same direction. And, you know, when you’re in kindergarten nursery, you’re encouraged to tap into your imagination. But once you start getting until elementary school, you’re told to shut it off. And, and to be like, you know, like everyone else. And so, you know, there was a point in my life until I started really seeing the world for what it is, and in healthy eyes, that I started walking away from how things are supposed to be in what was accepted and what was not accepted. Because I started to know what it was for me. So I would give my younger self that advice, but I’m not sure she would understand it. Because I think she would have had to go through all the things, all the amazing times the wounds, the traumas, you know, all this stuff that we all go through. And so you know, and and it leads you back to here. So I’m grateful for even though some of them were heartbreaking, and still are, I’m just grateful for all of it. But I think I would love for for young people to know what’s what’s healthy and unhealthy for them. And not to buy into that this is the way it’s supposed to be. And you know, find our own rhythm and our own harmony, to be able to follow it. Because I think that is what kind of in inspires ourselves. And when we’re inspired, we’re on fire to inspire other people.

Tim McDonald 22:22
This has been wonderful. And I know I can keep talking to you forever. But what let people know, you know, where they can find you how they can learn more about your books. And I know that even if you’re not out speaking as much right now, because you’re writing, you’re sharing a lot of that writing. So where can they find you and connect with you.

Ayelet Baron 22:44
So the first thing you need to know, you don’t need to know so much how to pronounce my name, but you need to know how to spell it. And if you spell it, you could find me everywhere I think. And so it’s Ayelet it’s a-y-e-l-e-t the last name is Baron because Ayelet is a very common name and in some places. So the last name is spelled b-a-r-o-n, and you could email me at Aleyet27@gmail.com. That’s my eternal age. You could find me on Twitter ayeletb on medium as well, I ayeletb. It’s mostly ayeletb in most places unless it was taken, because it is a popular name in some cultures.

Tim McDonald 23:28
Oh, well thank you so much for being a guest and I’m sure you have your will have your information about your upcoming books,

Ayelet Baron 23:35
I’m sure listed on those places, you can go to Amazon book, Our Journey to Corporate Sanity, and my book series will be coming out in the fall of 2020. Thanks, Tim. And it’s called Fuck the Bucket List. The first book is called Fuck the Bucket List for the Soul Discover the Wonder of You.

Tim McDonald 23:57
I can’t wait. I’m looking forward to it. So thank you so much. Ayelet and thank everybody for tuning in and watching and if you are new to the end of the program at the end, I always stop the YouTube Live broadcast but I keep my guest on and record one question with them that only goes out to our email subscribers. So if you haven’t already subscribed, hop on over to speaking dot business. That .com it’s not business speaking business and join our community and sign up for the email list over there and you will be getting weekly answers that you aren’t going to find anywhere else so stay tuned and we will see you soon.

 

• Understanding the different types of talks and how you should approach them differently
• If you can, give yourself a long runway to hone your craft
• There are some similarities between education and speaking but giving a keynote requires a different approach
• Don’t rely on just speaking – look at how to diversify your revenue as you start your business
• Look at your area of expertise, that gives birth to being a speaker, author, etc. on that topic 
• Be ridiculously curious and see who you can learn from by asking questions about their processes
• You can’t please everyone, and that’s OK

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Who is Dan Pontefract?

Dan Pontefract is the founder and CEO of The Pontefract Group, a firm that improves the state of leadership and organizational culture.

He is the best-selling author of four books: LEAD. CARE. WIN., OPEN TO THINK, THE PURPOSE EFFECT and FLAT ARMY. A renowned speaker, Dan has presented at four different TED events and also writes for Forbes and Harvard Business Review. Dan is an adjunct professor at the University of Victoria, Gustavson School of Business and has garnered more than 20 industry awards over his career.

His third book, OPEN TO THINK is the 2019 getAbstract International Book of the Year winner and the 2019 Axiom Business Book Award Silver Medal winner in the Leadership category.

Previously as Chief Envisioner and Chief Learning Officer at TELUS—a Canadian telecommunications company with revenues of over $14 billion and 50,000 global employees—he launched the Transformation Office, the TELUS MBA, and the TELUS Leadership Philosophy, all award-winning initiatives that dramatically helped to increase the company’s employee engagement to record levels of nearly 90%. Prior to TELUS he held senior roles at SAP, Business Objects and BCIT.

Dan and his wife, Denise, have three children (aka goats) and live in Victoria, Canada.

You can always find Dan Pontefract on Linkedin, Twitter, Instagram and Facebook. And don’t forget to check out his website. 

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Below is the full transcript from the show with Dan Pontefract. Please note that there may be some errors as it was auto transcribed using Otter.ai. (referral link that provides us with a 1-month Premium Pass

Tim McDonald 0:00
All right. Well welcome everybody to this business of speaking show. I am your host, Tim McDonald. And today I am so fortunate to be joined by somebody that I’ve had the pleasure of knowing for several years now and just got to work with him on a project early in 2020 called SpeakAid 2020. Dan Pontefract, how’re you doing Dan?

Dan Pontefract 0:19
Him, Uncle Tim, brother Tim, Tim, it’s so good to see you. It’s so good to be on your show, I’m so thrilled to be able to impart any type of experience or wisdom or knocks that I’ve taken in this the business of speaking but more importantly, Thanks for the invite, you are an amazing human being and had been for for your life, obviously. But since I probably met you in 2014, ish, I think somewhere around there.

Tim McDonald 0:43
I think that was right around the time of, of when your first book, I think was coming up Flat Army. So um, you know, and for those that might not have watched this show before, really what it is, is, it’s not to focus on what the speakers talk about on the stage, but their journey on how they got started to the stage and what they’ve learned since they’ve been up on the stage. So if you are thinking about getting started and speaking, are just starting in speaking, or as 2020 has taught us, no matter what you thought you knew about speaking, we never know what what the world has planned for us. This is a show for you and a community for you. So with that being said, Dan, I’d love to kind of kick off with, you know, telling your story of how you got started in speaking.

Dan Pontefract 1:35
Wow, well, I believe I was potentially put on this earth to be on a stage, or more importantly, what I just called in front of people to help. And when I was a kid, Tim, when I say kid, I mean sort of in my 12 to 16 year old self. I was on stage in plays. You know, I was Tom Sawyer. I was Huck Finn. I was in all sorts of different things that in Hamilton, where I grew up in Ontario, and the theater was something for me, where I could unleash, I suppose my desire to be creative in an artistic form in front of people. Now I was an athlete, and I was an academic, there’s a sort of like a third dimension to me, and I really enjoyed it. But then kind of when I turned 16, I got really heavily into soccer, and girls and work at the grocery store. And so it sort of took a backseat. In fact, it just disappeared. But what ensued over the following years was this penchant to help. And ultimately, I ended up at McGill University in Montreal, I thought I was going to be a doctor and or physiotherapist, I ended up being an educator. So I got my BA, I got my BE, bachelor of education. And I knew that that was a way for me to help but also kind of be on stage. So Denise, and I, my Incidentally, better half, and I picked up on a Montreal got married, moved to Vancouver, and became a teacher of high school for about two years. And it was lovely, you know, because every day, we were kind of on stage, if you will, helping, so it kind of married these two ideas of mine to be on stage to help so but I realized then as well, after the second year that maybe there’s more to helping and if you will, speaking then just in a classroom with 20 to 30 kids. So I went into higher ed. And in higher education for about five years, is again a different audience, but still in front. So I’m a director of a bunch of high tech professional career changing programs, cohort based model. And you know, I on Friday afternoons, I’d be able to what was called facilitate open dialogue about how things are going in their program, their lives, their career changes, etc. And it was a lot of two hour sessions of extemporaneous. Hey, what you doing? How can I help and weaving in stories? So then I entered into the corporate world, switching from education and higher ed into the corporate world, Tim, and it was then in 2002, where as a chief learning officer, I started delivering talks. And those talks were in conferences, right, it was in the organization. And that was in 2002. And then by the time I joined a telecom in 2008, I was now kind of quote, I would say on the circuit, and the circuit becoming, I was the kind of one of those guys that people would ask me to be at these conferences, to speak about Learning and Leadership and education, and culture and engagement. And so it really, it gave me a long runway to fixing and honing my craft which ultimately became my business or at least part of my business. Right around Say yeah, 2013 2014 when we met, and the book started coming out, and I complemented books with speaking with consulting, and that’s where I’ve been doing for the last five or six years.

Tim McDonald 5:11
Yeah, no, it’s I’m just always curious, because I’ve heard a lot of speakers have been in the classroom or, you know, at one point before they actually started doing speaking professionally, outside of the classroom. And I’m just kind of curious, was there a different feeling for you when you were getting up on stage? You know, not in front of a class, but in front of a different group of people that maybe you didn’t know?

Unknown Speaker 5:36
Yeah. Well, there’s, there’s different types of talks. I don’t know if we’ll get into that. But you know, there’s the keynote. There’s the sort of facilitated dialogue chat, if you will, sometimes fireside chats sometimes, you know, panels, right, and you’re still on stage. But then there’s, yeah, there’s, there’s times in which I would still call it a talk, you’re speaking but it’s more an extemporaneous, you know, massive coaching call. And it’s, it’s me, or whomever engaging with the audience, as if you’re doing a bit of off the cuff stand up, like how stand up comics might do when they engage with the audience, and they make it really funny. In these cases, I’m making it more of a coaching conversation with an audience. So first of all, I’ve learned that there’s different types of talks for sure. But you’re right, the question about, you know, coming from a classroom, or even, like I taught phys ed for a while as well. So you know, big classes of 50 to 70 kids and large gymnasiums, or pitches or field grabs, right? It’s different, obviously, because, in some cases, if you’re doing the formal keynote, let’s say it’s 45 or 60 minutes, you better have a plan to do a good intro, make sure it’s a good story, you know, make sure that there’s some levity, some self deprecation, and then you better have some sort of arc. And then a conclusion, whether you’re making them cry or feel good or both. You know, that’s, that’s a different art than the lesson in teaching, but getting up on stage, and being able to do it and know when to look at people in the audience know when to take a break. And when to pause, you know, when to rise and up and down with the emotions of the room, that’s a that’s a classroom technique of To be honest, and I’ve taken that those classroom techniques or gymnasium techniques and put that on the stage.

Tim McDonald 7:29
Now, that’s, it’s pretty interesting, that, you know, there are certain things that we need to still learn as we get into this. Now, I know, you know, when you work for a corporation, and you have the opportunity to get out and speak in front of whether it’s teams employees, or you know, in industry, you know, events, you know, you still have the comfort of having a paycheck from your employer. What made you or when did you know, it was right, for you to kind of embark on this on your own instead of having that kind of guarantee of a paycheck?

Dan Pontefract 8:06
It’s a great question. One. It’s a question. I think, Tim, that I’m often getting from folks that are working in, in organizations, be it public sector, not for profit, or obviously for profit corporations, you know, you’re it’s, I have been privileged, quite frankly, to have been able to be remunerated for many years by you know, high tech company by a telecom company and and hone that craft if you will, of becoming getting on stage and not having to worry about what I’m charging for a keynote or or not. And how many keynotes I could do pro bono, they were all pro bono. That’s just how it was. So I guess, you know, Dorie Clark, who’s a dear friend, and also just an amazing guests, as you probably have on the show, you know, Dorie, long ago had figured out how to have income streams, varied income streams. And so as much as I believe that there is a lot of goodness, and, and, and heart and giving that comes of speaking, I don’t think it can be the one thing that you do. I think that there are there is a need to have multiple revenue streams, if you will, if you’re about to go out on your own. So for me, you know, revenue streams of speaking in my if I look back in 2018 2019, halfway through 2020 or so, speaking is about a third of what I do revenue wise, it may not be a third timewise because it ebbs and flows. Sometimes I’m going to spend a lot of time on new material on ways in which to help a particular client so even though it might be a one hour keynote, it’s about 30 hours of work to get it right and then to practice it, right. But other times there there are keynotes where I know That I’ve delivered it perhaps one way for one client or a conference, I can tweak it. And then, you know, do it slightly differently, but not spend as much time. So the point being is that it’s about one third of revenue. And the other two thirds of my revenue streams are things like writing or things like coaching things like consulting, things like doing assessments and so forth. So, again, it’s a long winded answer. I’m sorry, Tim. But if I’m asking, if someone’s asking me, what did you do to get into the speaker world? Well, I didn’t just think I was going to be a speaker.

Tim McDonald 10:34
No, I think that’s very valuable and very helpful to so many people. Because, I mean, that was one of the things I had thought when I was gonna do it was I just wanted to be on stage, you know, and I’m still trying to figure out that that element of it, and I know a lot of other people will be too. So one thing that that I’m kind of curious about, because I see so many authors writing books, and so many speakers are, you know, do you call them a speaker? Do you call them an author, right? Because they’re both up on stage. So what, how do you view yourself and how did they both complement each other,

Dan Pontefract 11:11
uh, I am an author, I am a speaker. But first and foremost, I’m an I’m a leadership strategist. And the leadership strategist, insignia, if you will, is one that gives birth to being a speaker and author, a coach, a consultant, a learning designer, for all the online learning courses and things that I’ve built. Those are almost the outputs of being the leadership strategist. So So my job is to sort of say, look, Dan has ways in which he can support you, I’d love to be on stage. I mean, it’s great, I’d love to be in a facilitated workshop with 20 people online or face to face, I’d love to go into your organization and just sit with employees and listen to their stories, and understand how the culture is going on. I’d like to go in and help you build out a learning program or a leadership model. So whatever your thing is, your expertise, in my case, it’s leadership and culture and engagement and people in organizations and org design. I just call myself a leadership strategist. And then how I, how I deliver on that expertise comes in those either revenue streams, or channels or verticals, whatever you want to kind of think of them as, so if you’re a an expert in CPG, or the retail industry, you know, maybe you want to call yourself a retail strategist, or you know, a retail thought guru or whatever, I don’t really care. but you get the point, right? It’s what’s your expertise, and then go from there on how you can deliver modes of excellence so people can can learn from you.

Tim McDonald 12:55
Yeah, and, you know, you mentioned that you add a lot of different revenue streams built in from the beginning, when you launched out on your own. did was it obvious what they were? or How did you kind of figure out which revenue streams were going to be the right fit for you?

Dan Pontefract 13:14
Wow, I suppose Yeah, to each their own, because there are some dear friends of mine that probably have a 90% revenue stream on speaking and sort of 10% other, so it just sort of fill your boots depends on your fancy. And I’m not knocking folks that are doing all speaking all the time as their mode of revenue. What I did was I looked at myself and said, Do I want to speak all the time? And and that was a an answer that I often said no to. A) three goats were raising Denise and I lots of travel, obviously, it’s mitigated a bit to a degree with the pandemic. Well, it’s mitigated a lot, isn’t it? But that’s kind of where I’m going with, right. It’s a it’s an opportunity for you to say, what’s the right mix? And if your speaker x, whom wants to speak at 90% good on ya, but if you’re someone like me, who believes that, you know, there’s perhaps more ways in which for you to address your talent as a quote, leadership strategist, then, you know, you might, you might have to kind of mess around a little bit to find out what the right mix is. And again, I’ll say this, Tim, like, we all have rent to pay and mortgages to pay and groceries to pay and school clothes to pay for and so on. Right? So I’m not saying that you shouldn’t take on more speaking gigs if it’s going to help you get to the right, I guess, repertoire the mix. So don’t don’t hear me as if I’m being pompous and saying, Oh, you should do it. This. No, you got to do what works for you to pay the bills, right. But if you can get into a groove eventually that allows you to say I want to do 20 keynotes a year. And those 20 keynotes, I know, are gonna revolve around 20 times three, three days, because it’s a day to travel ish, maybe it’s two days, maybe it’s a day of prep, right? And kind of, you know, eight or nine hours of content, maybe your formulas four so, so it’s four times 20. That’s 80, 80 days of a calendar. And, you know, that’s, that’s a lot of time. But that could be you looking at saying 20 keynotes equals 80 days. Okay, that’s just about a quarter of my working days. That means I’ve got 25% of time and revenue dedicated to the 20 keynotes, what am I going to do with the other 75? or How can I compliment it, maybe you start out with, I want to do 60 keynotes, maybe you want to because you want to get there, you start at 20. And then you get to 40, get to 60, or five year plan, whatever it is, I’m a math guy, like one of my minors was math. So I always look at it so mathematically and say, How am I going to spend my time? And how do I want that pie graph to look, as I’m building out my repertoire of skills.

Tim McDonald 16:04
Now that’s very good, very good. You mentioned Dorie Clark as one of the people on so I’m just going to curious, I it sounds like you’ve had influences and people that have helped you along the way. What had been your biggest resources for, you know, really evolving and growing your business?

Dan Pontefract 16:27
resources? From a resource perspective, I think being first of all, a an autodidact. And a ridiculously Cur-curious person has helped me in my sort of lifelong journey. definition. And that That, to me is everything about who I am today, I am ridiculously asking questions about people about process about how tos about how did theys. And all of that goes into my head plus Evernote and I kind of attack it, I tact I write down a lot of little pointers. So I may, you know, someone, someone sends me a TED talk, and I’ll look at it just to see style content, you know, storytelling, what have you, if I were kind of talking about speaking here, when I’m at, if I’m asked to speak at a conference, you know, I’ll try to be there for the speaker before or the bit of the speaker after to get to see and hear and feel and smell what that style is like, both the good and the bad, and a sense of what I would do what I wouldn’t do, right, the good for me, the bad for me, because my style is one that’s different, but I could learn and maybe hone in a little bit. So there’s particular people that have done an incredible job of just speaking. And I’ve learned from that, and I again, whether videos are face to face. But similarly, you know, whether it’s Dory, or lots of great folks that have done the incredible job of building up the repertoire of options, I find, I find like I’m no one when I look at them and see what they’ve done. But that said, it’s pushes me and kind of my continuous addiction to improving myself to see well look at how they’ve done it. Maybe I could do that this way. Another dear friend, and example is Michael Bungay Stanier. So he author of the coaching habit and the advice trap. So Michael and I go back longer than you and I probably to 2010, probably 10 years now. And MBS, as he’s affectionately known, as you know, helped build up a company called Box of Crayons that helps people essentially become better versions of themselves. It was kind of a learning and development company and then it turned into a kind of leadership development and a coaching company. And he built this up from nothing, all the while writing I think he’s at his six books now. And also speaks and facilitates and and builds out these learning modules and it’s just he’s I’m in awe of Michael and his ability to build out the repertoire all the while being an engaging and funny Yeah, heartfelt speaker when he’s on stage. So I think we’re I look at myself as being in the vortex and shadows of the doors and Michael’s learning from them and trying to find ways in which to weave that into what I’m what I’m doing.

Tim McDonald 19:28
Now. I can’t believe our time is just flying by but one question I had before we kind of get into wrapping up is knowing everything that you know now. And I you know for most people I can say go back to when you started speaking but I know you started probably back when you were in your teens. So back when you were like kind of in the corporate world getting ready to think about launching on your own. What advice would you give yourself that you know now to that younger self of Dan

Dan Pontefract 20:03
What a great question I would, if I’m looking back at myself and saying, if you were to do it differently, okay, here’s the best way I would describe this is the audience is like a classroom. And when you’re a teacher in the classroom, unfortunately, you’re not always going to reach everyone. And whether it is a personality thing, or it’s a learning thing, or it’s a distraction thing, or it’s just, I’m an interested in you thing, or the content. Inevitably, you will receive like I did as a as an educator, as a teacher, as a prof you receive evaluations. And when something happened with me, for some reason that I thought all of a sudden, now you’re in the corporate world, you’re in corporate conferences and events, the evals are gonna be smokin hot 99%. This guy’s awesome. Because he’s funny, he’s engaging. He’s on stage, look at his hats. Look at those shoes, what great shirts, like it’s a different, like, you’d kind of you do a little bit of a persona change, at least I do to pay homage to my my buddy Gore Downey, of the of the hip here in Canada. And what I recognized was that the audience is a lot like the classroom in that you are going to get all wild differences of opinion in the audience. And then when you kind of go back to the evals, you are going to get some haters. And the haters are like, this guy’s an idiot, why is he wearing a hat? You know, why is he telling me how to lead I know how to lead. And again, you can’t focus on the five or six or X number of negative Nellies that are out there. because that’ll that’ll get you weirded out. And unfortunately, Tim, I think I was weirded out for the first few years. Because I would get those and think, Oh, my God. And it wasn’t until two or three or four, maybe five years into sort of the circuit and conferences, etc. I realized you can’t please everyone, Tim, in an audience. And that’s okay. So that’s my, that’s my lesson to myself. If I was kind of looking back and speaking to a younger Dan,

Tim McDonald 22:25
well, thank you. And I know you have a new book out Lead, Care, Win. I’m just kind of curious, what was the kind of the inspiration or the thought for this book.

Dan Pontefract 22:37
I have one copy, Tim, a lead care when how to become a leader who matters is a book that it just, it sounds horribly pretentious and arrogant, but it had to be written. And the reason it had to be written was that I’ve just come across far too many organizations and employees and leaders whom have sort of somewhat somewhere along the way missed the plot on what leaders are supposed to be doing. And so there are nine behaviors that I make reference to in this book that resurrect this is nothing new, it resurrects what a more caring, empathic, concerning type of leader ought to be doing both leader of self and leader of others. And it just to me is one of those where we need to be more patient, we need to be better listeners, we need to build relationships and champion others, we need to be the Curiosity based individual, you know, we need to commit to balance with equity, diversity and inclusivity. They’re just it’s a book that is resurrecting all of the goodness that has come before us into a compact nine lesson, Field Guide to remind people how important is and what to do to sort of take them back to where it ought to be. LeadCareWin.com is easiest way to go find out about that book.

Tim McDonald 24:05
Well, fantastic. I’m looking forward to reading it because I just got my copy. So tell everybody where they can find that book and how they can get in touch and learn a little bit more about you.

Dan Pontefract 24:16
Yeah, well, thanks so much again, Tim. It’s a pleasure to be here. Again, you’re such a good friend. The the book itself is available anywhere. So it’s, you know, go online, visit a local bookshop, get them to order it if it’s not there for you. Love to support your independent bookshops. Yeah, lead care when.com. Best way to go there. From there, you can kind of get some BIOS about me and find out what I’m up to. And what I’m really excited about the first time I’m releasing an entire online leadership development program with the book. So it’s a it’s pretty compelling. There’s about an hour of core material for each of the nine lessons and then upwards of two hours of bonus material on each of the nine lessons and it’s It’s been a treat last three months putting this thing together. So looking forward to releasing that as well.

Tim McDonald 25:04
Well, thank you so much, Dan. And thank you for watching and tuning in with us today. Again, if you’re new to the show, one thing that we do is we stop the broadcast here in just a minute. So, but I have a special surprise for any of our email subscribers because Dan agreed to stay on with me and answer one additional question. So we’re gonna record that but not put it on YouTube. So if you want to get that information, head over to business dot speaking or speaking dot business, I’m sorry, I’m like the business of speaking show. But speaking dot business and sign up for our free weekly email newsletter and that’s where you will get this exclusive content. So thank you for for watching today. And thank you for joining us, Dan.

Dan Pontefract 25:51
Oh, so good of you Tim. Thanks, everyone.